What does a chunky show type mean? also, what are endorsements?

Show types have been bred to conform to the Breed Standard and generally look more like this.....

Whereas Working types are bred to Work, so are generally more athletic looking, like this.....

But that is not only where the difference lies. Many Working types are much more driven to DO things, so have more energy. Some lines can be quite sensitive too, making them less how most newbies to the breed think Labradors are and more like Border Collies are. Remember, Temperament is mostly inherited.

So I'd think long and hard about the type of dog you want in your life, as some Lab types will suit your lifestyle and ability and others could be your worst nightmare.

Endorsements are put on pedigrees to stop the owners from being able to register any litters from the dog. Only the breeder can lift the endorsements, but some WILL lift them if once you have had the relevant health tests done, if you wish to breed.

No mention has been made of elbow scores, or the other health checks that are listed on here as things to check. Is this ok?

In a word, No.

Why settle for second best? You will hopefully have this dog as your best friend and companion for 10-15 years, so why risk getting one with health problems. Go for the BEST and most suitable pup you can get, even if it means travelling the length of the country and paying a bit more. Any breeder taking short cuts and only doing half the health tests, isn't worth buying a pup off of, as they aren't doing their best to produce healthy, happy puppies.

 

My older dog is a mixture between show type and working - she has turned out to be a short but fairly slim couch potato who enjoys flyball but doesn't have the ability to jump her height in agility. My youngster is working bred and he is blooming hard work. He is tall, lean and sensitive. I wanted working bred for flyball and agility but I didn't quite bargain for what I got!

I would say that hips, elbows and eyes are a minimum but I also looked at a litter where one of the parents was tested "Carrier" for EIC and the other parent wasn't tested so I avoided that litter because there was a significant risk of ending up with an "Affected" puppy.

I got a more knowledgeable friend to look over the details of the litter before I committed myself to buying Griffin.

Once you see the puppies you will find it much harder to walk away.

 

Thank you so much for your replies, its great being able to ask knowledgeable people about this!

I really want to do it right as the pup will be a family member for a very long time who will be growing up next to my two young children.

I did ask a number of questions but got very limited info back from the breeder and the website is not that detailed either, especially compared to others I've been directed to.

Its all such a minefield! I just want to get a pup from a responsible ethical breeder!!

Sadly I'd love to get someone more experienced to help me look for the right pup but I don't know anyone who fits the bill. I'm definitely trying to get the right information up front before going anywhere near any puppies as I know that there is absolutely no chance of going away without a pup.

 

Hi.

Based on what you have said about the breeder not being that forthcoming with info I would walk away. There are plenty of good breeders who will happily give you any info you want, and talk and talk about their labradors

Chloe

 

Strange they would have hip scores but not elbow. I would have thought if you have to go to the effort for hips (I think dog needs to be sedated or have a GA), you just do the elbows at the same time???

 

What about PRA, CMN, EIC? All it takes is for both parents to be carriers and you have the potential of a pup with some serious health implications.

This sounds irresponsible to me..please walk away and do not even contact this "breeder" again. There are lots of litters out there where correct tests have been done.

 

In response to your post on another thread, yes, you would expect at least 12 months wait for a puppy from a responsible breeder. It is worth leaving your details with a responsible breeder, even if they don't have any available puppies in their current litter. Things happen and sometimes puppies become available. Also worth asking the breeder if they know of any other breeder they would recommend. Often word of mouth is the best way!

Please don't even look on Gumtree etc. The adverts will pull at your heart strings, even if your head tells you no. It is worth waiting for the right puppy.

Chloe

 

Champdogs website is worth a look because they usually list the health tests, have photos and the 5generation pedigree so you can get more info before you contact the breeder. You still need to see the certificates and do a bit of research though.

 

Also look at stud dog owners, as they will be able to give you details of visiting bitches.

Also worth looking at what you want, colour, breeding, sex etc.

 

Thanks all, I've stepped away from the breeder and am continuing my search!

Do the tests need to be current? I've found another breeder who will have a litter available soonish but for the dad the eye, elbow and hip scores are good but the DNA, CNM and EIC certs are from 2009 but are hereditary clear, plus the mum is only listed with eye, hip, elbow and DNA health checks.

I'm not being too fussy am I?

 

DNA tests are a one off, as are hips and elbows, the BVA eye certificate should be renewed annually. If one parent is clear for the DNA tests, then it means the pup can't be affected, at worst they could be a carrier, so won't ever develop the condition. I'd personally test a bitch, but not everyone does.

 

I'm not being too fussy am I?

You can never be TOO fussy.

I really want to do it right as the pup will be a family member for a very long time who will be growing up next to my two young children.

You probably won't be wanting a full on working type then, but at the same time, you might not be wanting a big, heavy, clumsy dog either (not sure how small your children are, but Lab puppies grow horribly fast and some of the larger types do tend to be rather apt at knocking small people over).

Have you had a dog before? Do you have a preference on gender and/or colour? If you give us some clues, maybe someone here could point you roughly in the right direction of lines to look at.

 

Kate600 - I've sent you a PM.

You probably won't be wanting a full on working type then, but at the same time, you might not be wanting a big, heavy, clumsy dog either (not sure how small your children are, but Lab puppies grow horribly fast and some of the larger types do tend to be rather apt at knocking small people over).

Hey Jules, I'm always keen to broaden my own understanding on this. Obviously the physical differences are unequivocal, but when facing this choice myself I was aware of the activity and temperament stereotypes of working vs show, but after scouring forum after forum, every person saying "yeah my working is a handful" there was someone saying the opposite, and vice versa for shows. What are peoples thoughts on the nature vs nature debate?

If I take my Gemma as an example (16 months now), sure as a youngster she was a bouncing lively pup in every way. But aren't they all? But she has adapted really well to a quiet sedate household and spends an almost unhealthy amount of time chilling out on the sofa when I'm busy working etc. I've implemented aspects of rewarding calm behavior in our training regime and make sure she gets around 40 minutes off-lead time every day in a field or park (plus more on the lead), and much more at weekends. And we still treat every walk as one big training session too for mental stimulation as we proof heel, sits and stays with distractions etc.

She is definitely full of beans though when she gets her off-lead time! And she get's ridiculously excitable around other people and other dogs. But that's all I could personally pin-point. But I have no other experience to compare with, hence the inquiry.

So I'm curious, when people talk about a "full on working" vs show, what does it really come down in practical lifestyle terms for those considering such a choice? Is it just exercise really? I imagine Gemma would go stir-crazy if she only ever had lead walks. But as long she can have a good free run everyday, she's a happy couch potato for the rest. She seems so tuned into my lifestyle now that even having had a long nights sleep, she gets up, has her breakfast, and takes herself back to bed until she senses it's time for our lunch time trip to the park. Would a show type be more contempt with lead-only walks, for example?

 

Once the plunge is taken in my world for number 2 then I will be on here asking same questions and being the fussiest fella in town

We got Jude by mistake and were so so so lucky as she's a dog in a million. She does unfortunately have a couple of health issues but I'm often caught between wanting to punch the irresponsible backstreet breeder she was rescued from (not bought) or thanking them for my Judy!!!!!

Good luck with your search...... I just finished my tea and the leaves foretell a match made in heaven and wonderful times ahead

 

I have sent you a PM.

Chloe

 

Well done I say for finding out Kate600, all this will pay off for you! X

 

DO NOT BE TOO FUSSY!! When it comes to supporting a breeder of labrador dogs only support the best

I got Luna from someone who had done the minimum 'needed' health tests. Poor Luna has elbow and hip joint problems and I adore her to pieces but it is no fun to constantly worry about balancing fun with the pain and stiffness she suffers

My boy is a rescue and whilst I completely understand the desire for people to have a dog that they have from a pup and see grow up and develop into chaos! I have no regrets at all about taking Tucker on. It can always be worth signing up with labrador rescues just in case a young pup or REALLY suitable older dog comes up that, for example, has had it's family leave it behind when they emigrate or has had to be abandoned due to a relationship break-down.

Good luck with your search!

 

John n Gemma I would agree with Jules that nature has a big influence as well as nurture and there is definite difference between working and show lines particularly in terms of drive. I have a working cocker and I wouldn't advise anyone wanting a lap dog to get one she is truly amazing to watch 'working' whenever I take her anywhere near a field and its nothing I taught her I'm hopeless, my show bred boy, a lab so different anyway but has never had the drive she does. I do think your dogs mould to some extent to the life you give them and I have seen empirical evidence to support that but there is also an element of individual character that you cannot control. I know with my own dogs that if I look back at videos of them with their litter, before they knew and lived with me, I see their little quirks in what they do how they look what interests them those things hold true now. If you think about it not all specially bred for the programme assistance dogs make it for all kinds of reasons so they are standardised in care as much as possible and manipulated in genetics to some degree but still show individual differences. There are also very experienced lab owners who have one out of their dogs who has 'issues' and they aren't because that person doesn't know what they are doing or their home life else all of their dogs would be like that not just one. It's nature AND nurture.

My advice is take all of the advice the others have given! Gather as much information as you can about any pup you intend to bring into your family but also spend time with them before you decide because I honestly think they do show you who they are if you give them a chance to