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would you feed BARF or KIBBLE?

  • BARF

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • KIBBLE

    Votes: 6 66.7%
  • No Preference

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9
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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, firstly, my apologies for posting this as I am sure it may have been covered quite a bit.

We are currently feeding our pup on kibble but considering switching to BARF, after reading up on it from a few sources.

The reason that we are considering switching is due to the following.

We brought our pup home at just over 12 weeks, the 2nd or 3rd night we had him home he had diarrhoea really bad which then had bits of blood in it. We got him to the vets and they put him on a course of metronidazole followed by a course of probiotic paste.

The vets also advised us to mix some cooked rice with his meals to help form his poos. We took the decision to remove the rice as it was coming out as it went in! His poos did start forming but have been very inconsistent in that some will be quite well formed and then they will be creamy. His poos have now been inconsistent for a couple of weeks.

He is back at the vets tomorrow morning for this reason and also that in a number of poos today they have been thoroughly littered with what looks like tiny grains of rice (I mean a lot!!) he has had full courses of worming and flea treatments, so unsure if it is the aftermath of the treatment or whether some cheeky type of worm has slipped past the treatment. He had his last dose 2 weeks ago.

So this had added to us wanting to go au naturel and give him BARF, we have read from a source (Lab owner and breeder) to just go full turkey onto the BARF, but to start with one type of protein and then after set time add a 2nd type of protein etc etc. We have read that he should get around 10% of his bodyweight, which in Hunters case would be 1.1KG as he is 11KG. (If my maths is correct!?) now is that per day or is that per meal. We were thinking of starting him on 3x times a day due to age and then down to 2x a day once he is older.

Any help or advice from owners who feed their labs on BARF would be much appreciated and I thank you for taking the time to read. I also hope that this makes sense!

Regards.
 

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Hi and welcome to you and Hunter.

I haven't voted as not a real barf feeder [only a chicken wing now and again for a treat;) ].

Hopefully one of the barf feeders will come on and give you some help soon.

Hunter sounds like quite a chunky pupster at 11 kg already so looking forward to a picture when you get a chance.

I do agree about stopping the rice, for some it can be hard to digest,the little grains could be a sign of worms that have been expelled if the worming treatment has worked so I wouldn't be too worried about that.

I wonder if worms have caused the upset tum though, and also I would hope your vet has done a test on poo to see if there is any bacteria or Campylobacter infection causing runny and upset tummy as this would need treatment before you introduce anything new.

Good luck with the barf feeding when you have sorted poor boy out though, will be interested in hearing how you get on.

Oh and PICS' please ;)

June x
 

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Is the vet certain that his tummy has healed? My pup had giardia and we were advised it can be tricky to clear it however first course of treatment sorted it.

Could it be possible that he is being fed too much as that can cause loose stools?

I have read your other post and see you're using beta puppy food, according to all about dog food website that is actaully worse quality than bakers and pedigree. I really don't understand 'breeders' that don't research the food they give to their pups.

http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0255/beta-puppy-large-breed

I know you are keen on the raw but if my pup was on beta he/she would be getting moved to something else a lot better quality.

Before even considering changing his diet I would be making sure his tum is better first incase he has got worms or giardia etc
 

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Discussion Starter #4
June, many thanks for your response, Hunter is a little over 16weeks old now and weighs in at 11kg, do you think that is quite heavy!? He looks like he will definately be a big chap when older. We read somewhere that a rough guideline is 1kg per week old but I am sure that is nonsense!?? He is quite big at the minute but healthy looking and I think he is quite bloated as feels quite gassy and bloated. Hoping the vet does tests tomorrow as they asked for us to take samples in. I think that was on there notes as follow up treatment!! Should it not improve dramatically. His poos at the minute are not watery but a mixture, some are creamy some are formed!! Will see what the vet says tomorrow!!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ttfan, many thanks for your response, I was starting to wonder if Beta may be the cause of some of it.
I was going to hold off on changing until seen the vet and ensured no underlying issue.
Now have 14kg of Beta that need to get rid of, hoping to dig the receipt out and take it back to the shop as they informed us that should any food not be suitable then we can take it back!!
 

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Hi Hunter. I went through the same with puppy Gemma, permanently loose stools, often mucus'y and sometimes with blood for weeks and weeks until I changed her kibble. The difference was practically overnight! You wouldn't be the first person I've heard tempted to move to RAW/BARF after one or two bad experience with kibble, but personally I feel it's a little knee-jerky given there is such a vast choice of really good, all natural kibbles out there. But stuff you're unlikely to find in a supermarket which tend to be racks of cheap mass-market junk kibbles.

Even a close friend did this, tried his puppy on Bakers kibble (cheap filth for want of a better description) and based on that one experience alone decided kibble didn't suit and switched to pre-packed raw.

Gemma has done great on fish4dogs and millies wolfheart kibbles. Fish4dogs only sell direct online. Millies you might find in the odd specialist pet store but ordering direct is the easiest way to go. fish4dogs do 1.5kg small sample bags with a no-quibble money back guarantee. Millies do small sample sizes too but without the money-back offer (I think?).

Sorry that hasn't really answered your question re BARF advice, it's a personal choice and kudos to you for whatever choice you make.
 

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June, many thanks for your response, Hunter is a little over 16weeks old now and weighs in at 11kg, do you think that is quite heavy!? He looks like he will definately be a big chap when older. We read somewhere that a rough guideline is 1kg per week old but I am sure that is nonsense!?? He is quite big at the minute but healthy looking and I think he is quite bloated as feels quite gassy and bloated. Hoping the vet does tests tomorrow as they asked for us to take samples in. I think that was on there notes as follow up treatment!! Should it not improve dramatically. His poos at the minute are not watery but a mixture, some are creamy some are formed!! Will see what the vet says tomorrow!!
No I wouldn't think he is too heavy, and yes I found my girl put on an average of 1 kg per week up to approx 6/7 months then it slowed down and was steady for a long time, wish I could say she is a slim girl now though, something went wrong last couple of years and she has quite a few pounds to shed [we are weight watching as I type;) ], must add she is 71/2 now, but that is no excuse:(.

Hopefully the vet can establish whats going on with the tests, it may be his food if he is a bit windy/bloated, or there may be infection requiring treatment, as said already its not unusual for pups to get these infections early on, and they do sometimes take a while to clear up.

I found a tspn of Priobotic Natural Yoghurt did help and small amounts of light meals fish/chicken, maybe mashed potato instead of rice, 3/4 small meals a day, until poos firm up, plus the Prokolin from vet.

June x
 

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I wouldn't necessarily say going raw will solve the problems your puppy has. Personally I think I would be looking for a better quality kibble than the one you are using!

Chloe
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hello all, Hunter has been to the vets and they are doing tests on 2 stool samples which I took. One had tapeworm eggs / larvae in it and the other from this morning looked clear.

The vet has put him on a 7 day course of panacur to really clear him out and has advised us to switch his food so now trying him on Royal Canin. Hopefully his poos will start forming.

I also spoke to the vet with regards to switching to BARF and they have said that they would not recommend it but said that we could mix a bit of raw food in with his meals if we wanted.

It all comes down to difference of opinion I think, because you could ask 10 people the best thing to feed puppies / dogs on and you could probably get 10 different answers!!
 

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Hello all, Hunter has been to the vets and they are doing tests on 2 stool samples which I took. One had tapeworm eggs / larvae in it and the other from this morning looked clear.

The vet has put him on a 7 day course of panacur to really clear him out and has advised us to switch his food so now trying him on Royal Canin. Hopefully his poos will start forming.

I also spoke to the vet with regards to switching to BARF and they have said that they would not recommend it but said that we could mix a bit of raw food in with his meals if we wanted.

It all comes down to difference of opinion I think, because you could ask 10 people the best thing to feed puppies / dogs on and you could probably get 10 different answers!!

At least now you know what the problem is and hopefully the panacur will clear it up.
Have you looked at www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk ?

Royal canin isn't too good either, everyone has their own opinions on what is the 'best' food however the site above lists all the ingredients in the vast majority of foods available.

There are many good foods available to choose from, some look expensive however a good quality food will probably work out cheaper as feeding portions are generally smaller.



http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0068/royal-canin-giant-puppy

just one of the royal canin puppy foods, not good at all and very expensive
 

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Discussion Starter #12
As mentioned previously, you could ask 10 people what to give a dog and you would likely get 10 different answers lol, whilst I accept and value everybody's opinion, it is a case of what works for Hunter. If this brand works for him then happy days, if not then we will continue searching for a brand that suits! You could read a hundred reviews and I could almost guarantee that there will be negative reviews for every product on the market.

This is not intended to come across or be a swipe at anyone so please do not take to heart if it is perceived that way as it is not my intention to upset or rubbish anyone's opinions! As stated I welcome all input that experienced owners may wish to present!

Many thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I think you will find that vets do quite well out of the sales of Royal Canin dog food !!!!!!!

Chloe
That may be true as a lot of vets are apparently "taught" dog diets by representatives from these various food companies. Not sure how true that is! The reason that we picked royal canin is because my friend and colleague has a lab that was very sensitive and found that only royal canin and science plan worked for her (the lab). So I didn't pick it on the advice of the vet alone. I know that a lot of vets don't do a great deal of research and just go off what they have been told / taught on their courses! Just wanted to clarify and no offence or such like intended! :)
 

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As mentioned previously, you could ask 10 people what to give a dog and you would likely get 10 different answers lol, whilst I accept and value everybody's opinion, it is a case of what works for Hunter. If this brand works for him then happy days, if not then we will continue searching for a brand that suits! You could read a hundred reviews and I could almost guarantee that there will be negative reviews for every product on the market.

This is not intended to come across or be a swipe at anyone so please do not take to heart if it is perceived that way as it is not my intention to upset or rubbish anyone's opinions! As stated I welcome all input that experienced owners may wish to present!

Many thanks.

It's up to you what you feed your pup and there's no reason for anyone to take anything to heart. For the cost of the Royal canin I would be picking something good quality but again that's up to you. The ingredients are not good. No one here has really advised what you should feed as we all have our personal preferences. The website I linked to is nothing to do with individual reviews. It give reviews of the ingredients in all the foods.


I certainly wouldn't feed a food that is full of fillers and no good quality meat, does this list look healthy and appetising to you?




I would rather something like this which has far healthier ingredients, smaller portions and be better value for money :)

 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I am unable to see the name of the 2 brands that you have compared, am I correct in presuming that the 1st one is royal canin and the 2nd is the brand that you use? What is the name of the bottom one that you have compared please? Did you mention in the other forum as I am sure you mentioned which was the one you used! going to have a look at the site now as not had chance due to being at work.
 

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I am unable to see the name of the 2 brands that you have compared, am I correct in presuming that the 1st one is royal canin and the 2nd is the brand that you use? What is the name of the bottom one that you have compared please? Did you mention in the other forum as I am sure you mentioned which was the one you used! going to have a look at the site now as not had chance due to being at work.
Yes the top is Royal canin. The bottom one is one I use which is called Millies Wolfheart, there are many other good foods available though.

If you go on the all about dog food site it lists every food out there. You can search either by wet/dry or click the box to start with top rated first.


You can honestly do better than the Royal canin food, with so much choice out there there's no reason to feed a poor quality unless you have to.

Some of the foods looks expensive per bag but when you look at portions it can work out cheap. If I buy two bags of 14.5kg food at a time it only costs me around 90 p a day (excluding Millies Wolfheart treats) that is not a lot to feed a good food.

Everyone has their preferences but I think it's daft to prefer a bad quality one unless it's the absolutely only food a dog will tolerate.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
that was it I knew I would remember after seeing it again! You would think that these "top" (I use the term loosely) companies / brands would have it down to a tee. especially for the price they slam on it. But when you do your homework, I agree that it isn't all that great!
might have to make another trip and change the food again before his insides go into complete meltdown! Or should we keep him on the bag we have, let him settle for a bit and then switch out to the better stuff?
In a muddle now, as feel sorry for the wee man having his food chop and changed every few days!!
 

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If he is ok at the moment on what he is using then I would keep him on it until his tummy clears. Yes it's not good but too many changes at once isn't the best.

I would then swap over to a good quality one once he is clear of his bug. A dog will eat any food given but will not thrive so much on a poor quality one. My girl looks brilliant and her coat is gleaming, I really wouldn't feed anything else now unless I have to.

I hope his tummy settles down soon and we all need to see some photos :)
 

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Discussion Starter #19
It may have come across as a bit of an exaggeration as he hasn't had that many changes lol. We couldn't clarify the actual food that the breeder had him on, but they said beta. we tried him on some store brand which was a poor choice then we had him on beta puppy and that doesn't seem to be agreeing with him. we then moved him onto royal canin today at dinner time.

I think we will keep him on royal canin, let him finish his course of 7 days on panacur. then about a week or so after completion of that we may go for one of the foods that has high rating on the site or the millies wolfheart.

I 100% agree that when you compare the two, if I was looking at it from a personal point of view I wouldn't want to eat the top one and would go for the wolfheart, so if I wouldn't eat it then why should my dog!!

Bottom line, is you are basically paying for the name with these "top" brands rather than the content!

Hope that makes sense!!
 

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It may have come across as a bit of an exaggeration as he hasn't had that many changes lol. We couldn't clarify the actual food that the breeder had him on, but they said beta. we tried him on some store brand which was a poor choice then we had him on beta puppy and that doesn't seem to be agreeing with him. we then moved him onto royal canin today at dinner time.

I think we will keep him on royal canin, let him finish his course of 7 days on panacur. then about a week or so after completion of that we may go for one of the foods that has high rating on the site or the millies wolfheart.

I 100% agree that when you compare the two, if I was looking at it from a personal point of view I wouldn't want to eat the top one and would go for the wolfheart, so if I wouldn't eat it then why should my dog!!

Bottom line, is you are basically paying for the name with these "top" brands rather than the content!

Hope that makes sense!!


It's a minefield when looking at food, I agree that I wouldn't eat it either. There are lots to choose from and at the end of the days it's what you like best.

When i was looking last year it took me about 3 Weeks of research and I kept going back to MW. At the end of the day though what suits one dog may not suit another.

I have been asked by my vet twice if I want to try the hills science they sell- I'm happy to explain to them I will be sticking with Millies.

I even use their cat food for our kitten :)
 
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