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Our pup has sometimes been lame and Panosteitis (sp?) was suspected, but her X rays don't confirm it. They have been sent to Bristol vet school who could find nothing untoward, but have said that perhaps she should have an MRI scan. She is on metacam and parvol pain killers. She has up to 3 30 minutes walk a day on a lead. How to you occupy a pup that old longing to play with her friend , she has a snuffle mat and Kongs, but it is so hard to keep her quiet. Do you think that the vets are right? Sometimes you can see nothing wrong at all, and that doesn't help.!
Both her parents were hip scored, she is very strong, so is there a harness that could be recommended so that her neck doesn't take the strain.? She is the 10 th lab I have had, and I can't remember having this problem. Her walks are usually on woods or farmland.
So sorry for a long post, but would really like some help,.
Netliz
 

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Panosteitis is almost impossible to determine by ex-rays. It's characterised by a limp, often changing sides, and even moving from front limb to back and back again. It used to be treated with PLT tablets (Prednoleucotropin, known in dog circles as "Poorly legs tablets") Really, it would be what is known in children as Growing pains. It often seems to go away, then return a few days or weeks later. One of my dogs, Katy had it as a pup and I used to give her PLT as an when required rather than all the time. It got so that she would limp, I would give a tablet and the limp would go away. One day when she limped I had run out of PLT, so having some white chocolate around, and PLT tablets being white, I cut a little bit off and gave it to her and the limp mysteriously went away! (Oh the power of suggestion!) But the good news is, Pano is self limiting, it WILL go away finally and not come back and will leave no nasty after effects. Katy lived out her full life and was active to the end.

PS. Not sure if PLT is still in production, but have a feeling that it has been dropped.
 

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Panosteitis is almost impossible to determine by ex-rays. It's characterised by a limp, often changing sides, and even moving from front limb to back and back again. It used to be treated with PLT tablets (Prednoleucotropin, known in dog circles as "Poorly legs tablets") Really, it would be what is known in children as Growing pains. It often seems to go away, then return a few days or weeks later. One of my dogs, Katy had it as a pup and I used to give her PLT as an when required rather than all the time. It got so that she would limp, I would give a tablet and the limp would go away. One day when she limped I had run out of PLT, so having some white chocolate around, and PLT tablets being white, I cut a little bit off and gave it to her and the limp mysteriously went away! (Oh the power of suggestion!) But the good news is, Pano is self limiting, it WILL go away finally and not come back and will leave no nasty after effects. Katy lived out her full life and was active to the end.

PS. Not sure if PLT is still in production, but have a feeling that it has been dropped.
Thanks very much for your answer, still not sure it's Pano, but she's back to the vet next month, and maybe they will start some form of steroid, and maybe some hydrotherapy.
Can't find any PLT but it would need a script . Thanks again......any ideas of brain tiring toys for her (not us!)
 

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If it is pano then gentle exercise will help. But as brain tiring then training is always good. Sit stays, down stays dont require any leg work and can be used when vacuuming the floor. Teach her to love from one side of the room to the other to allow you to vacuum the bit where she was sitting. It's about making training fun and into something you can use in every day use. Even such things as "Shake a paw" though not exactly useful makes her use her brain. But just going to the park and sitting on a seat with her is wonderful training, teaching her patience. (Even though it is a bit chilly at this time of year) Though the wrong time of year I used to use this for gundog training. Sit my dog beside where the village teams were playing cricket. Great steadiness training with cricket balls flying around! It's all about using a little lateral thinking.
 

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If it is pano then gentle exercise will help. But as brain tiring then training is always good. Sit stays, down stays dont require any leg work and can be used when vacuuming the floor. Teach her to love from one side of the room to the other to allow you to vacuum the bit where she was sitting. It's about making training fun and into something you can use in every day use. Even such things as "Shake a paw" though not exactly useful makes her use her brain. But just going to the park and sitting on a seat with her is wonderful training, teaching her patience. (Even though it is a bit chilly at this time of year) Though the wrong time of year I used to use this for gundog training. Sit my dog beside where the village teams were playing cricket. Great steadiness training with cricket balls flying around! It's all about using a little lateral thinking.
Thanks again, now I'm a bit concerned about hip dysplasia, the vets says there was a little but not enough to cause the limps, and Bristol agreed.As you can see we aren't sure, so we'll take her to the vets again, and try to get the hydrotherapy arranged, which wouldn't do either condition any harm, I presume?
 

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Hydrotherapy would certainly not do any harm. It's advantage is that the water takes most of the weight rather than the legs.

Hip dysplasia. Most creatures, both human and canine have a certain amount of abnormality, VERY few hips are perfect. But thats no problem. It's only when the amount of abnormality gets greater than a certain amount that it becomes a problem. Certainly I have HD, made worse by racing motorcycles in my youth. A serious accident damaged my right hip, but years of favouring that side has meant my left hip is now giving up the ghost. (But with luck it will see my time out. ;) )
 

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Hydrotherapy would certainly not do any harm. It's advantage is that the water takes most of the weight rather than the legs.

Hip dysplasia. Most creatures, both human and canine have a certain amount of abnormality, VERY few hips are perfect. But thats no problem. It's only when the amount of abnormality gets greater than a certain amount that it becomes a problem. Certainly I have HD, made worse by racing motorcycles in my youth. A serious accident damaged my right hip, but years of favouring that side has meant my left hip is now giving up the ghost. (But with luck it will see my time out. ;) )
 

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to the best of our knowledge she doesn't have a motorcycle licence, (!) but will persue the hydrotherapy option and thanks again .
 

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Is it the same leg that she limps with? Are you insured? If the conservative measures are not resolving the issue I'd definitely ask for the MRI.
We have a now 8 month pup, from health tested parents including dad DNA tested. At the end of October she started very infrequent limping when she had been resting. To summarise, since the start of November she's been rested, on NSAIDs and my vet did xrays. He saw a very slight swelling on one hock and referred us to a specialist. She has OCD in her hock. The specialist also diagnosed bilateral subluxation of her hips. A 5mm mouse was successfully removed from her hock and she's had PRP and SCT harvest. The difference of the quality of the MRI imagery and the xray is incredible. She has hydrotherapy the times a week and is restricted with exercise. Thistle is my 6th lab, but my first experience with OCD and HD. I hope there's nothing too seriously affecting your pup, and it is pano, but you are right not to ignore it. My vet has treated my animals for over 30 years and I trust him fully. He's seen many cases of OCD but normally at around the dog's age of 2 years as most owners do not address an intermittent issue and only seek vet intervention when it's further down the line. You are right to follow up until the issue is identified. In the meantime, as John says, lots of brain work which will keep her happy 😊
 

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to the best of our knowledge she doesn't have a motorcycle licence, (!) but will persue the hydrotherapy option and thanks again .
Is it the same leg that she limps with? Are you insured? If the conservative measures are not resolving the issue I'd definitely ask for the MRI.
We have a now 8 month pup, from health tested parents including dad DNA tested. At the end of October she started very infrequent limping when she had been resting. To summarise, since the start of November she's been rested, on NSAIDs and my vet did xrays. He saw a very slight swelling on one hock and referred us to a specialist. She has OCD in her hock. The specialist also diagnosed bilateral subluxation of her hips. A 5mm mouse was successfully removed from her hock and she's had PRP and SCT harvest. The difference of the quality of the MRI imagery and the xray is incredible. She has hydrotherapy the times a week and is restricted with exercise. Thistle is my 6th lab, but my first experience with OCD and HD. I hope there's nothing too seriously affecting your pup, and it is pano, but you are right not to ignore it. My vet has treated my animals for over 30 years and I trust him fully. He's seen many cases of OCD but normally at around the dog's age of 2 years as most owners do not address an intermittent issue and only seek vet intervention when it's further down the line. You are right to follow up until the issue is identified. In the meantime, as John says, lots of brain work which will keep her happy 😊
Thank you for your reply. No it's not always the same leg, which puzzled us , but she has been resting for a few weeks, and touch wood is getting better. She is insured, and both parents were HD tested, with nothing wrong. At the moment she is having limited exercise, and is coping with life very well. Am very interested to learn about the PRP and SCT. I understood that OCD was a problem with older dogs so that was helpful to know. She will see the vet again soon and if advised will have the MRI at Bristol. It has been so helpful to have your and John's thoughts,
Happy New Year
 

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Thank you for your reply. No it's not always the same leg, which puzzled us , but she has been resting for a few weeks, and touch wood is getting better. She is insured, and both parents were HD tested, with nothing wrong. At the moment she is having limited exercise, and is coping with life very well. Am very interested to learn about the PRP and SCT. I understood that OCD was a problem with older dogs so that was helpful to know. She will see the vet again soon and if advised will have the MRI at Bristol. It has been so helpful to have your and John's thoughts,
Happy New Year
Thankfully that's not looking like anything sinister and John was spot on 😊
OCD actually starts in the earliest weeks according to our specialist and first shows from around 5 months but mostly goes undiagnosed and untreated. It can settle itself but not always. The MRI shows such brilliant detail which is instrumental in the appropriate treatment. Thankfully Thistle had the 5mm mouse successfully removed. The PRP and SCT are both additional measures to maximise recovery. Bone marrow was harvested from a healthy shoulder bone and platelet rich plasma injected into her affected hock. The remainder was sent off to be 'made' into stern cells and hopefully if successful will be again injected into her hock. The aim is to encourage the poor cartledge to be boosted with a rich area to fully repair. I'm not an expert at all but have read many reports it's of great benefit along with all the adjustments. I really am devastated as Thistle was from health treated parents too but again am told by the experts that there are no guarantees and the issues were lurking in grandparents or above and is hereditary. Some meetings combine the carriers.I'm sure John will know much more than myself. I certainly have not over exercised, she weighs just 22kg and isn't over weight and doesn't go upstairs or on furniture. Life can be cruel, but we're doing the best for her to enjoy a happy and painfree life as possible. :giggle:
 

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The problem is that OCD can occur in any joint, but we only check elbows. Several reasons for that, the more places you exray the more it costs, and the more it costs the less people who will test. Also, although modern exray equipment is relatively low radiation that was not the case when elbow scoring first started. But even now there is limits to how much radiation a dog should be subjected to, and the smaller the dog the lower the figure. So it was decided to settle on the joint with the biggest problem, the elbow.

Elbow and hip scoring are no guarantee, but they offer the best chance. But part of the problem is that we dont even know for sure the mode of inheritance, but it does not seem like a simple recessive gene or genes. (Certainly hips anyway are polygenic. caused be several genes) Used with hip and elbow scoring the KC's "Estimated Breed Value" is a great help in that it allows us to see a picture of what the breed line has produced. I personally dont like the way the KC have implemented it, and would have done it slightly differently, but thats personal. For anyone looking at the EBV, remember 0 is average, and the average is a rolling average, so it's possible for a dog to move from the good side into the bad side or vice verser simply because the average moved for that quarter. My own Amy was a case in point. When EBV's started she was just on the good side of average. When the KC decided to implement a rolling average her EBV moved to slightly worse than average. But now, because some poor scores have gone into the calculation of the average she has moved back to the good side. What I'm saying is, when looking at EBV's dont worry about a dog being marginally on the bad side, but a dog well into the bad side should start alarm bells ringing.
 

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The problem is that OCD can occur in any joint, but we only check elbows. Several reasons for that, the more places you exray the more it costs, and the more it costs the less people who will test. Also, although modern exray equipment is relatively low radiation that was not the case when elbow scoring first started. But even now there is limits to how much radiation a dog should be subjected to, and the smaller the dog the lower the figure. So it was decided to settle on the joint with the biggest problem, the elbow.

Elbow and hip scoring are no guarantee, but they offer the best chance. But part of the problem is that we dont even know for sure the mode of inheritance, but it does not seem like a simple recessive gene or genes. (Certainly hips anyway are polygenic. caused be several genes) Used with hip and elbow scoring the KC's "Estimated Breed Value" is a great help in that it allows us to see a picture of what the breed line has produced. I personally dont like the way the KC have implemented it, and would have done it slightly differently, but thats personal. For anyone looking at the EBV, remember 0 is average, and the average is a rolling average, so it's possible for a dog to move from the good side into the bad side or vice verser simply because the average moved for that quarter. My own Amy was a case in point. When EBV's started she was just on the good side of average. When the KC decided to implement a rolling average her EBV moved to slightly worse than average. But now, because some poor scores have gone into the calculation of the average she has moved back to the good side. What I'm saying is, when looking at EBV's dont worry about a dog being marginally on the bad side, but a dog well into the bad side should start alarm bells ringing.
Thank you John. Thistle fortunately has good elbows according to the specialist. I'm also reassured that the OCD is successfully being managed. We were very relieved only one hock is affected. This just leaves the hips to sort when she's finished growing. She's just reached 8 months. I'm a worrier but also adhere strictly to the professional advice so know I'm doing my best for her. It would be the best outcome if her hips are on the lower scale of affected, but I need to be patient to find out.
 
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