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Also, Tarimoor Dark Opal has had two litters, both to Icyrivers Myohmy by Carriegame, the first produced 6 pups, the second produced 11 pups, when I get a minute I'll put the dates down and the names for you (unless John already has them to hand), I'm just writing up a report for work.
 

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Just thought of a quick way for you:

26295


Tarimoor Crow Edge is in Germany, she has passed all her retriever, conformation and health tests, she got A1 hips and elbows. Tarimoor Hidden Dreams is the bitch puppy I kept back.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Yes, John. That's exactly what I have. Somewhere along the line I might have misread the information on Labrador Forums - my fault entirely. Apologies.
Love the way these pedigrees print out, don't you!
I have added these three dogs from Tarimoor to my database, as I didn't have them in it until today. Of course because they came from good Labrador breeding, nearly all the ancestors were linked in with a few exceptions.

Pauline
 

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Apologies, Tarimoor ... I must have misinterpreted the info on the forum. It's exactly what both I and John have on our databases, so all is well. I can also report that many of the Rocheby line are in my Cambremer Quicksilver at Stelmarin (Poppy) (Stelmarin being our granted Kennel Name but we have not paid to keep it since about 2014) and in Sharouns Ganymede at Stelmarin (Magnus). Poppy's father was Silver Suede over Rocheby, and he put it about a good bit, didn't he!!! If they are a good breed standard they will nearly always get used as sires. Did you hear the tale of some breeder who had a bitch that was being sired by one of his dogs. The person said 'I want this, that and the other' sorting out so I hope your dog can do the business'. Then the breeder with the dog asked the person needing the stud if they knew the name of the stud dog ... Yes was the response. Quick as a flash the stud dog owner said 'Well he's not Jesus Christ you know'!! I thought that was incredibly funny, if not a little sad, that someone thought at one throw they could obviate all those things that they needed to change in their next litter.

So all is well with the pedigrees for your three girls, and I am delighted that by entering them into my database, as I didn't have them until today, I have completed quite a lot of pedigrees which needed the information. Well done and many thanks.

Pauline
 

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Thank you again, Tarimoor. Such good and up to date information. I'll certainly be adding it to my database and revelling in the information about their forebears that comes up. I have a bronze figurine, quite a large one, of Receiver of Cranspire, I believe he was a Yellow. He was bred by Margaret Coddington (Genisval) whom I understood sold him to someone and wishes she hadn't done so. It's quite a long time ago, but Margaret was very helpful to me, particularly, like a frightened rabbit in the show ring with Poppy. I would rather sing (I am a classical soprano) to a full Royal Albert Hall than trot around a show ring being gawped at, and Poppy was a handful. Marlene Hepper once slapped her across the nose, I was thankful I wasn't handling her that day and that task fell to my husband, Michael, who always preferred the softer attributes of Magnus!

Pauline
 

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I have modified my copy of BreedMate Pauline, to list the major DNA tests and CoI's This was my Amy. As you can see, working lines. I use "Traffic lights" for the DNA tests, red affected, yellow carrier and green clear. As you can see, Amy was right at the start of DNA testing, just as we were finding that the problems were a lot greater than we suspected. So much so that when I told Prof. Peter Bedford that I was going to test Amy for PRA his answer was, "But why John? You dont have a problem in your breed!" But as you can see from this, we really did have problems! As to CoI's, I always calculate to 10 generations, so when comparing dogs it's a straight comparison, rather than the KC's bottomless pit. To me, my way is far better.

1593532303163.png
 

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Thank you again, Tarimoor. Such good and up to date information. I'll certainly be adding it to my database and revelling in the information about their forebears that comes up. I have a bronze figurine, quite a large one, of Receiver of Cranspire, I believe he was a Yellow. He was bred by Margaret Coddington (Genisval) whom I understood sold him to someone and wishes she hadn't done so. It's quite a long time ago, but Margaret was very helpful to me, particularly, like a frightened rabbit in the show ring with Poppy. I would rather sing (I am a classical soprano) to a full Royal Albert Hall than trot around a show ring being gawped at, and Poppy was a handful. Marlene Hepper once slapped her across the nose, I was thankful I wasn't handling her that day and that task fell to my husband, Michael, who always preferred the softer attributes of Magnus!

Pauline
Not a problem, I'm due to start health testing with my puppy soon and plan to have another health tested, so will let you know the results if you're interested. There's also at least one more pup who is hopefully going to bred on from, pending how she develops and health test results, so there may be a few more out there in the future from my girls.
 

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I always liked Receiver. To me he was rather finer than some males, particularly by today's standard, and it's the finer dogs I prefer. (Though OK, fair enough, some working lines are a little fine even for my taste. ;) )
 

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I started out with Breedmate then my computer gave up and they wanted to charge me again. My current dogs are French so I don’t know how they’d fit into your database.
 

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Hi Maddie

Well, let's see what we can find. I have dogs from every nation in my database, because of course they often, these days, and have for some time, been within the lineage. The Tintagel Winds prefix is very evident even though I believe the name was registered in France. Ahti Aspen of Finnwoods, in the pedigree of my Poppy (Cambremer Quicksilver at Stelmarin) was born in Germany and so if you provide me with the full kennel names of your beloved Labradors, I will do my absolute best to research them for you. I was fortunate in that I didn't pay for my Breedmate disc because at the time, perhaps 2008 I was working as a researcher, unpaid, for the convenor of the World Pedigrees site for Labrador Retrievers. It's a shame that they wanted to charge you again just because a computer malfunction destroyed your work and your ability to continue with the database. I don't make any charge for any information I provide, and I can, when I find out how to do it, make sure that any 5 generation pedigrees I can generate can be sent to you. Would you like that? I'm going to have to ask JohnW to help me in that regard.

Thank you for your interest and I am willing to have a go.

Pauline
 

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I have modified my copy of BreedMate Pauline, to list the major DNA tests and CoI's This was my Amy. As you can see, working lines. I use "Traffic lights" for the DNA tests, red affected, yellow carrier and green clear. As you can see, Amy was right at the start of DNA testing, just as we were finding that the problems were a lot greater than we suspected. So much so that when I told Prof. Peter Bedford that I was going to test Amy for PRA his answer was, "But why John? You dont have a problem in your breed!" But as you can see from this, we really did have problems! As to CoI's, I always calculate to 10 generations, so when comparing dogs it's a straight comparison, rather than the KC's bottomless pit. To me, my way is far better.

View attachment 26296
 

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Hi John

What an absolutely brilliant modification you have made to suit your requirements. I have kept, basically, the way Paul Holmes wanted it done initially (he might have made changes after I was no longer doing research on his behalf) to take account of the DNA tests and other things. We did envisage breeding from our two because they both had good lineage, and Joyce Brabban had looked at the pedigree of Magnus (Sharouns Ganymede at Stelmarin) and said that together with Poppy (Cambremer Quicksilver at Stelmarin) they ought to produce some good progeny. Then in late 2009 I had heart trouble and surgery in February 2010 at Leeds GI. As we were not in 'the mix' of the Labrador-Retriever fraternity, we decided to have Poppy neutered, but she had by that time had two seasons. We just thought that trying to raise a litter and then ultimately ensuring that they went to good homes with a loving family, was going to be difficult. It took us about 3 further years to have Magnus relieved of his crown jewels, but if they are not going to mate, we had been reading and also advised that it was a good thing. Magnus was off his food, whining and drooling if there was a bitch in season within 3 miles of us (or so it seemed) and that's why we went down the road we chose. I hope this explains why I keep my database as basic as I do. It has the sire and dams names, their colour, date of birth, where I found the information, any titles which they have acquired, hip score and eye test information and that's about it. It currently stands at 32,434 as of 30th June 2020.

In the future, and having I hope, been able to help others who are interested in the lineage of their Labrador-Retrievers, I would love to be able to do as you have done with the example of Garrethall Paean and be able to send 5 gen pedigrees to interest parties. I don't know how to do it so I'm hoping your can take me through the procedure if that's not too much to ask.

One thing I have found confusing is that sometimes the granted Kennel Names are 'listed' in Show catalogues and Year Books with the addition of 'S'. Carromer is what it should be, not Carromers or Carromer's. Lawnwood is another where, on K9data, Lawnwoods is prevalent. Allenies is another. If they want to inform that a Carromer Labrador-Retriever is from that 'stable' then why not put 'Reynold's (Mervyn and Carol) Carromer whatever the name of the dog is. In my formative years with Breedmate and not being au fait with all the Kennel Names, I found my database 'clogged up' with duplicates. Of course I realise that some granted Kennel Names have an 'S' at the end Boothgates, Sharouns and there are others. Nowadays I'm more careful when I see it and I do keep a list of those with the 'S' which are correct.

Receiver was a fine dog and there have been a great number of them in the past. I think, having recently watched Marion Hopkinson on YouTube, my husband and I have learned a lot about what breeders are trying to do to obviate faults and to bring a very good breed standard to the fore.

As for a Cavapoo - what in God's name is that. Is it a Cavalier x with a Poodle? I have loved our breed from the 'off' but admit that at first I called it a Golden Labrador ... didn't know any better, but I do now.

Kind regards, and many thanks for all the very helpful information.

Pauline
 

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Hi John

What an absolutely brilliant modification you have made to suit your requirements. I have kept, basically, the way Paul Holmes wanted it done initially (he might have made changes after I was no longer doing research on his behalf) to take account of the DNA tests and other things. We did envisage breeding from our two because they both had good lineage, and Joyce Brabban had looked at the pedigree of Magnus (Sharouns Ganymede at Stelmarin) and said that together with Poppy (Cambremer Quicksilver at Stelmarin) they ought to produce some good progeny. Then in late 2009 I had heart trouble and surgery in February 2010 at Leeds GI. As we were not in 'the mix' of the Labrador-Retriever fraternity, we decided to have Poppy neutered, but she had by that time had two seasons. We just thought that trying to raise a litter and then ultimately ensuring that they went to good homes with a loving family, was going to be difficult. It took us about 3 further years to have Magnus relieved of his crown jewels, but if they are not going to mate, we had been reading and also advised that it was a good thing. Magnus was off his food, whining and drooling if there was a bitch in season within 3 miles of us (or so it seemed) and that's why we went down the road we chose. I hope this explains why I keep my database as basic as I do. It has the sire and dams names, their colour, date of birth, where I found the information, any titles which they have acquired, hip score and eye test information and that's about it. It currently stands at 32,434 as of 30th June 2020.

In the future, and having I hope, been able to help others who are interested in the lineage of their Labrador-Retrievers, I would love to be able to do as you have done with the example of Garrethall Paean and be able to send 5 gen pedigrees to interest parties. I don't know how to do it so I'm hoping your can take me through the procedure if that's not too much to ask.

One thing I have found confusing is that sometimes the granted Kennel Names are 'listed' in Show catalogues and Year Books with the addition of 'S'. Carromer is what it should be, not Carromers or Carromer's. Lawnwood is another where, on K9data, Lawnwoods is prevalent. Allenies is another. If they want to inform that a Carromer Labrador-Retriever is from that 'stable' then why not put 'Reynold's (Mervyn and Carol) Carromer whatever the name of the dog is. In my formative years with Breedmate and not being au fait with all the Kennel Names, I found my database 'clogged up' with duplicates. Of course I realise that some granted Kennel Names have an 'S' at the end Boothgates, Sharouns and there are others. Nowadays I'm more careful when I see it and I do keep a list of those with the 'S' which are correct.

Receiver was a fine dog and there have been a great number of them in the past. I think, having recently watched Marion Hopkinson on YouTube, my husband and I have learned a lot about what breeders are trying to do to obviate faults and to bring a very good breed standard to the fore.

As for a Cavapoo - what in God's name is that. Is it a Cavalier x with a Poodle? I have loved our breed from the 'off' but admit that at first I called it a Golden Labrador ... didn't know any better, but I do now.

Kind regards, and many thanks for all the very helpful information.

Pauline
Yes, to the question regarding cavapoos, there are so many made up names now for cross breeds, I've heard some daft ones, chorkiepoos, as well as very over descriptive terms which makes me think the owners have been misled just with a long and unnecessary name, such as English miniature chocolate cockapoo. I was chatting with a colleague and we were talking about dogs, turns out they have a shih tzu x poodle, and yes, I did ask the question!
 

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The Tintagel Winds prefix is very evident even though I believe the name was registered in France.
A little tip for you. Yes Tintagel Winds is the affix of Felicity Leith Ross in France. But just occasionally you will see Tintagelwinds affix, This was Keira Leith Ross, Felicity's daughter here in the UK. I wondered so I asked Keira. The story goes that in France you can have two word affixes but when Keira tried to register it here, the KC refused it, so she registered it with the UK KC as all one word. But for some reason she is now using Shorkey (not sure of the correct spelling) I've not seen her recently to ask why she changed, but I'm guessing it's to do with the length of the word.
 
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