[BarryPup]

Hi, just after some advice please. I know there’s lots on here about this and I’ve read quite a lot of them.

Our pup who’s nearly 6 months old has a slight overshot top jaw. His adult k9s are growing next to his baby ones so on the inside of his mouth.

He’s been a the vets this morning for something else and she seemed quite concerned and suggested he see the dental surgeon for his views.

I just wanted to see what experience others had on this issue as I know there’s a wealth of knowledge on here with this specific breed.

We don’t plan to breed or show him.

I’ve uploaded a pic (apologies, it’s the best I could get at the mo)

Thank you

 

[JohnW]

It's a widely held belief that the adult teeth push the puppy teeth out. But that is totally wrong. When the pup is just a few weeks old the roots of the puppy teeth start to atrophy, literally until there is nothing left and the tooth falls out. It's quite normal for the canines to be the last to drop as decause of the job they do their roots are longer, and it's also normal for the adult canines to be present before the puppy canines fall out. But normally the adult and puppy canines will appear one behind the other where in the case of your pup it appears to be beside the puppy canine. I've no doubt your vet will want to remove the puppy canine. Is it necessary??? There is no doubt the puppy canine will drop on it's own without any help, but will it push the adult tooth out of position?? And if it does, will it matter?? The canine teeth are the tearing teeth, designed in the wild to tear any creature it has caught apart for eating. But the domestic dog has no need for this, his food comes out of a bag. So to a large extent the canine teeth are redundant, simply not needed in the domestic environment. So, what to do? With the thought in mind that in all likelihood the puppy canine will drop out on it's own within the next couple of months, is it worth subjecting the pup to an operation, with all the risks this entails? I know what my thoughts would be, but really, it's up to you.

 

[BarryPup]

Thanks John. I don’t really want to subject him to anything unnecessary. My worry is where the adult canine is currently sitting, if it grows on that path their concern is it will start to hit the roof of his mouth.
In your opinion would you wait and see what happens when the baby k9 falls out to see if the adult k9 realigns itself as at the moment it’s sitting besides the baby one.

 

[JohnW]

if it grows on that path their concern is it will start to hit the roof of his mouth.

That is a possibility. But I dont underestimate the risks involved in operation. A distant relation's 9 month old puppy developed a limp. Her vet suggested ex-raying to see what was going on. The pups heart gave out and she died under the anaesthetic. OK, thats unusual, and there must have been an undiagnosed problem.

I can only tell you what I personally would do. I would give it another couple of months or so to see if it would drop of it's own accord then re-evaluate the situation. A few tuggy games might hasten it's demise. My thoughts are that if the worst came to the worst, and the adult canine did start to cause problems, I'd cross that bridge when it happens. As I said, in the domestic environment the canine teeth do not have the importance that they have in the wild, so if it did need removing later it would not cause him any major inconvenience, and by that time he would be older and better able to withstand the operation. And by that time, if you decide to neuter, both could be combined in a single operation.

 

[BarryPup]

Thank you so much. That’s kind of the advice I was hoping for but from a far more experienced person than myself.

I’ll hang fire for now and see what happens with those pesky baby teeth (they’re the same on both sides at the bottom).

He also still has the baby ones at the top along with his adult ones but they seem to be in the right position, behind one another.

Id never forgive myself if anything happened to him if he had surgery for something which at the moment doesn’t seem to be causing him any issues.

Hopefully they fall out soon and his adult ones find their way.

 

[JohnW]

It's long odds against anything going wrong during an operation and people tend quite blasé about it . But the risk is still there, and this was brought home to me when the worst happened to my relative's Labrador.

 

[BarryPup]

It's long odds against anything going wrong during an operation and people tend quite blasé about it . But the risk is still there, and this was brought home to me when the worst happened to my relative's Labrador.

I can imagine it’s devastating. I’ll bide my time and see what they do. Thanks John 🙂

 

[fiz]

Am only replying because I have a non labrador little mix rescue who keeps my Mischa Labrador company. She has an overshot jaw and came to us couple of years ago to keep my lab girl company when her lab mates finally went to bridge.
This has been no problems at all for her.
I honestly feel if it is not a concern for the dog then I would leave it alone.
Just my opinion.

 

[BarryPup]

Am only replying because I have a non labrador little mix rescue who keeps my Mischa Labrador company. She has an overshot jaw and came to us couple of years ago to keep my lab girl company when her lab mates finally went to bridge.
This has been no problems at all for her.
I honestly feel if it is not a concern for the dog then I would leave it alone.
Just my opinion.

Thank you for the reply. I think it was the vet that made me worry, she was like you need to get that seen to asap and made me feel like I should be concerned. I think as John and yourself have said it’s not causing any issues at the moment so i think I’ll see how the pesky blighters go and hopefully they’ll sort themselves out

 

[BarryPup]

That is a possibility. But I dont underestimate the risks involved in operation. A distant relation's 9 month old puppy developed a limp. Her vet suggested ex-raying to see what was going on. The pups heart gave out and she died under the anaesthetic. OK, thats unusual, and there must have been an undiagnosed problem.

I can only tell you what I personally would do. I would give it another couple of months or so to see if it would drop of it's own accord then re-evaluate the situation. A few tuggy games might hasten it's demise. My thoughts are that if the worst came to the worst, and the adult canine did start to cause problems, I'd cross that bridge when it happens. As I said, in the domestic environment the canine teeth do not have the importance that they have in the wild, so if it did need removing later it would not cause him any major inconvenience, and by that time he would be older and better able to withstand the operation. And by that time, if you decide to neuter, both could be combined in a single operation.

Hi John

Sorry to bother you again but I’ve got a bit more of an update on this.

One of the offending bottom baby k9 teeth is now loose which is great however I have noticed a slight dent in the roof of his mouth from where the adult k9 tooth is obviously touching the roof of his mouth.

Ive spoken to the vet and they’d have to refer us to the dentist they use bug probably can’t see us until august!

im not sure what to do as I don’t want him to be in pain but with the tooth now loose I’m hoping the adult k9 will move into the correct position.

Surely if he’s in pain and the tooth doesn’t fall out they’ll have to see him?

 

[JohnW]

Allowing for the fact that I'm not a vet, simply somebody with too many miles on the clock, Why would a vet refer you to a specialist????? Part of the vet's training is in dentistry! Surely they are not thinking of trying to straighten it? Fit the dog with a denture!!! Sorry but to me it sounds like adding to the bill, getting yet more money out of the insurance companies. Monies which the dog owning public will eventually have to pay in increased premiums! (One reason why I wont pay vet insurance.) OK, canines are deep rooted teeth, have to be for the job for which they were intended. But they do not appear fully grown. It's (obviously) not the top of the tooth growing longer. As the tooth erupts, moves up out of the jaw to the root is the end which is growing, so that there is literally the same amount of root in the jaw when the tooth first appears as when it is finally fully grown. Vets pull teeth every day, whether molars, incisors or canines because they are rotted, broken or whatever. It's part of what they are trained for. So, at the end of the day, I dont know why a specialist needs to be involved. If a dog is in pain then yes, the vet should pull it out, it's what he was trained for.

Sorry but I feel quite strongly about this. Vet Insurance was originally aimed to give the poor a way of being able to pay vet bills, effectively spreading the cost over a year. But then vets found there was money available, "Specialists" arrived on the scene with all sorts of exotic treatments which in many cases are (to me anyway,) not in the dog's best interest. But the outcome of this is that premiums have soared, literally pricing it out of the pocket of the very people it was designed to help. You must excuse my rant, but as I said, I feel very strongly about what vets have done.

 

[BarryPup]

Allowing for the fact that I'm not a vet, simply somebody with too many miles on the clock, Why would a vet refer you to a specialist????? Part of the vet's training is in dentistry! Surely they are not thinking of trying to straighten it? Fit the dog with a denture!!! Sorry but to me it sounds like adding to the bill, getting yet more money out of the insurance companies. Monies which the dog owning public will eventually have to pay in increased premiums! (One reason why I wont pay vet insurance.) OK, canines are deep rooted teeth, have to be for the job for which they were intended. But they do not appear fully grown. It's (obviously) not the top of the tooth growing longer. As the tooth erupts, moves up out of the jaw to the root is the end which is growing, so that there is literally the same amount of root in the jaw when the tooth first appears as when it is finally fully grown. Vets pull teeth every day, whether molars, incisors or canines because they are rotted, broken or whatever. It's part of what they are trained for. So, at the end of the day, I dont know why a specialist needs to be involved. If a dog is in pain then yes, the vet should pull it out, it's what he was trained for.

Sorry but I feel quite strongly about this. Vet Insurance was originally aimed to give the poor a way of being able to pay vet bills, effectively spreading the cost over a year. But then vets found there was money available, "Specialists" arrived on the scene with all sorts of exotic treatments which in many cases are (to me anyway,) not in the dog's best interest. But the outcome of this is that premiums have soared, literally pricing it out of the pocket of the very people it was designed to help. You must excuse my rant, but as I said, I feel very strongly about what vets have done.

I completely agree and just feel at a bit of a loss. When I rang earlier they just said he’d need to see a specialist dentist.

Im going call them again tomorrow and ask that one of the vets see him and get it sorted.I would have thought they could just pull the baby teeth out which will then allow room for his adult teeth to move.

Thank you

 

[BarryPup]

Allowing for the fact that I'm not a vet, simply somebody with too many miles on the clock, Why would a vet refer you to a specialist????? Part of the vet's training is in dentistry! Surely they are not thinking of trying to straighten it? Fit the dog with a denture!!! Sorry but to me it sounds like adding to the bill, getting yet more money out of the insurance companies. Monies which the dog owning public will eventually have to pay in increased premiums! (One reason why I wont pay vet insurance.) OK, canines are deep rooted teeth, have to be for the job for which they were intended. But they do not appear fully grown. It's (obviously) not the top of the tooth growing longer. As the tooth erupts, moves up out of the jaw to the root is the end which is growing, so that there is literally the same amount of root in the jaw when the tooth first appears as when it is finally fully grown. Vets pull teeth every day, whether molars, incisors or canines because they are rotted, broken or whatever. It's part of what they are trained for. So, at the end of the day, I dont know why a specialist needs to be involved. If a dog is in pain then yes, the vet should pull it out, it's what he was trained for.

Sorry but I feel quite strongly about this. Vet Insurance was originally aimed to give the poor a way of being able to pay vet bills, effectively spreading the cost over a year. But then vets found there was money available, "Specialists" arrived on the scene with all sorts of exotic treatments which in many cases are (to me anyway,) not in the dog's best interest. But the outcome of this is that premiums have soared, literally pricing it out of the pocket of the very people it was designed to help. You must excuse my rant, but as I said, I feel very strongly about what vets have done.

We’ll this morning the loose baby k9 tooth came out so I’m now praying that the adult one can move into its correct place!

 

[LondonLab]

We’ll this morning the loose baby k9 tooth came out so I’m now praying that the adult one can move into its correct place!

Hi, we are new to this forum (I have Ernie a 15 month old black lab) and your post really resonated with me so I wanted to try and offer you some reassurance. When we took Ernie for his first check at the vets (aged 8 weeks and only on his second day with us) we were told that he had an overshot jaw and the best thing to do would be to refer him immediately to a veterinery dentist specialist in Winchester (we live in London!) for further investigation. We were also told that this was a serious disorder that should have been picked up by our breeder beforehand. As first time owners we were slightly horrified and shell shocked. He was showing no signs of pain but there were indeed tiny pin pricks in the roof of his mouth where his baby canines were touching the top of his palate. I immediately called his (well respected and experienced) breeder who said she was pretty confident that he did not have an overshot jaw and that when his adult canines came through they would be in the correct position. I had no desire to take an 8 week old puppy for treatment to Winchester (we were also told it was unlikely that insurance would cover this specialist treatment!) so consulted a different vet in our area. Their recommendation was to remove the baby canines to give the adult canines some more space to come through in the correct position. After much worry and consideration we had the baby canines removed when he was 5 months old and very happily his adult canines came through in the right position. In fact, a different vet (at the same practice who said we needed to see a specialist) commented on how wonderful his teeth were last week! Long story short, everything was fine in the end and I suspect they would still have been fine if we had not removed the baby canines. I hope that your pup's teeth start moving in the right direction soon!

 

[BarryPup]

Hi, we are new to this forum (I have Ernie a 15 month old black lab) and your post really resonated with me so I wanted to try and offer you some reassurance. When we took Ernie for his first check at the vets (aged 8 weeks and only on his second day with us) we were told that he had an overshot jaw and the best thing to do would be to refer him immediately to a veterinery dentist specialist in Winchester (we live in London!) for further investigation. We were also told that this was a serious disorder that should have been picked up by our breeder beforehand. As first time owners we were slightly horrified and shell shocked. He was showing no signs of pain but there were indeed tiny pin pricks in the roof of his mouth where his baby canines were touching the top of his palate. I immediately called his (well respected and experienced) breeder who said she was pretty confident that he did not have an overshot jaw and that when his adult canines came through they would be in the correct position. I had no desire to take an 8 week old puppy for treatment to Winchester (we were also told it was unlikely that insurance would cover this specialist treatment!) so consulted a different vet in our area. Their recommendation was to remove the baby canines to give the adult canines some more space to come through in the correct position. After much worry and consideration we had the baby canines removed when he was 5 months old and very happily his adult canines came through in the right position. In fact, a different vet (at the same practice who said we needed to see a specialist) commented on how wonderful his teeth were last week! Long story short, everything was fine in the end and I suspect they would still have been fine if we had not removed the baby canines. I hope that your pup's teeth start moving in the right direction soon!

Ah thank you for this, I appreciate it.

his baby k9’s were ok and not causing any issues it just seems to be where his adult ones are coming through.

One has since fallen out so I’m hopeful that the adult one can move into its correct position. That then just leaves one remaining where the adult one is growing on the inside which could mean it goes upwards towards the roof of his mouth rather than it’s correct course.

Im hoping given time it does it’s just knowing how much time to give them but if all else fails and we do need some intervention I’ll just have them removed.
The vets are adamant he needs specialist treatment now but I guess they don’t fully understand how a Labrador’s jaw grows. I certainly didn’t until reading lots of threads on here.

Time will tell and I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed!