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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know I have seen various discussions / comments on this - but if pups are from

One DNA tested clear parent and
One Clear by Parentage parent

Will the pups be registered CBP?

Presumably, any pups bred on from that litter would need to be tested again under current KC regs on number of generations they will register CBP?
 

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I've just had a look on Martha's KC Registration Certificate and it shows her as being CBP. Poppy is tested clear and at the time of the registration Reiver was CBP (he's since been tested in his own right).
 

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How long will do they continue registering CBP, does anybody know if there is a limit?

Regards, John
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
JohnW said:
How long will do they continue registering CBP, does anybody know if there is a limit?
I don't know John - I seem to have somewhere in the back of my mind that it is only the 2nd generation - i.e. the offspring of two CBP parents would need to be tested in order for their offspring to be registered - it's not really a major problem either way - but following my last contact with the KC when I was told YELLOW was the dominant gene in Labs :?
 

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I might be mistaken but I don't believe they have declared a definate limit on CBP generations. I know a lot of discussion has reigned, forums, ringside, at working events, talking about ideally only two... maybe three, but I'm yet to read anything from the men that count that sets that in stone. However something may of been published recently that gives definate guidance. I would be pleased to learn if that is so if they *have* made a definate decision on this (because it was infinatum) as far as I knew as of the last KC any questions type seminar in late Winter this year when I asked.... and they said 'no decision'....

Di
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If they haven't already made a decision, then I think they need to ASAP really - as testing has widened - we are now getting to the stage of certainly 1st generation CBP being bred - and possibly even some second generation.

I suspect I probably will test any pups I keep (assuming there are any) - but neverthless, I am guessing a lot of people won't - what will they do then if they decide on a ruling? renege on their original agreement to classify dogs as CBP?

As an aside, have they made a decision yet whether they are going to add CNM results to the dogs records? last time I spoke to them the jury was still out. I got the impression that these decisions are made from information received from the Breed Council?
 

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I wonder how things will move forward with CNM results as regards being published. With multiple testing centres, some more widely recognised than others, and with so many other DNA tests being increasingly used I wonder what the viewpoint of the BC and of the KC will be. If they start publishing CNM, then what about EIC, then the RD/Skeletal test, Epilepsy and so on... its a mindboggling idea.

Bearing in mind it was a good 4 to 5 years before the KC agreed to publish Optigen results, and we are only a couple of years into CNM testing being even vaguely considered in the UK by almost anyone... be interesting to see how things pan out.

As regards CBP I know I saw a year or so ago a third generation CBP mating so I bet some are nearly on their 4th now... it can't go on endlessly. The AKC insist all dogs declared CBP are DNA profiled on their record. Otherwise they don't recognise CBP at all. I wonder if that is the way forward here. If you want to declare it, you need to prove it...

Another interesting decision ahead for those that be.
Di
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
TBH - I am a fan of the potential for DNA profiling - not so much for proof of parentage - becaue it would have a huge impact on pedigree dog thefts and trackability - it would be interesting to see how such a concept would be received though :( more expense, more tests :(

Intially, the AB scheme required DNA profiling of all pups registered within 12 months of joining the scheme - but they downgraded it to permanent ID in MC or Tattoo
 

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Agree that profiling won't be greeted with open arms. My American friends cannot understand how we can just *trust* folks words on a dogs parentage when declaring something as important as PRA CBP. I can see their point but then they are shocked to bits we just take dogs along for eye testing and hip scoring without them HAVING to be profiled or perm ID'd.

I think we operate in a hugely trust orientated society on these things at the moment (That the black dogs we say we are presenting for hip xraying is REALLY the black dog the score is going to be logged against). I'm not sure how long that will continue in todays society...

Di
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Diana said:
I can see their point but then they are shocked to bits we just take dogs along for eye testing and hip scoring without them HAVING to be profiled or perm ID'd.
TBH - as my dogs are all chipped and have been scanned for health tests (hips, elbows, eyes etc) it didn't even occur to me it wasn't a mandatory requirement until I read it on here.

But of course, it WILL be mandatory from next year - so yep - moving in that direction.
 

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Is that mandatory across the board or for ABS'? I would think it will take a long time to filter through, cynic that I am.... possibly eye testing will get itself into line because everyone doing so is a panelist with a position to maintain, but I wonder as regards vets in a hundred practices across the country. Most don't even know about the health schemes it seems to any great extent. I wonder if it being mandatory to ID will actually sink in....? Only time will tell eh?

Its not an Optigen requirement either, so I wonder how the KC will get round THAT one?

Di
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yep - that appears to be for ALL dogs - took me a while to find it

"Additionally, all dog owners and breeders will be required to permanently identify their dogs, via microchip or tattoo, from January 2010, in order to participate in the Kennel Club/British Veterinary Association health schemes for eye disease and hip and elbow dysplasia. These schemes have been in place for many years and give dog owners in relevant breeds the opportunity to test for a number of common disorders; this move is introduced, at the express request of the veterinary profession, to ensure the fairness and accuracy of the results of the schemes."

Taken from:

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/2234/pg_dtl_art_news/pg_hdr_art/pg_ftr_art
 

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My vet does it as a matter of course anyway, but when I said to him recently that it will be mandatory from January 2010 he didn't have a clue.

Perhaps word hasn't gone round yet :roll: .
 

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I live in doubt of it actually happening, and do wonder about the Optigen anomoly, but we shall see eh?!

At least if its *meant* to happen my US friends will stop talking to me like i'm some poor trusting fool who's woefully misguided ;-)
Di
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Diana said:
I live in doubt of it actually happening, and do wonder about the Optigen anomoly, but we shall see eh?!
if the BVA refuse to scrutinise the plates or perform an eye test without one - then people won't have much choice.
 

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Yes, you know how it is though Sue, only in an ideal world will the vets actually DO it - Isuppose adding a mandatory box for perm ID number could be useful to encourage it...

I know the USA public will never agree to Optigen demanding perm ID for some mad reason, it goes round and round and round about the *right* to not have a dog chipped or tattoo'd, so wonder how the KC will demand it. Maybe before submission they will need to contact owners and ask for the chip/tattoo number. To keep it in line with BVA test results it will be facinating how they handle it next year....
Di
 

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Di, Di, Di! I posted that right back in February, and if you remember, how we were going to have to spend OUR money buying a scanner so we could continue our sessions. Yes it is mandatory right across the board and covers all "Our" tests, Hips, Elbows and Eyes. As to Optigen, no I dont think so because being in America, although it is listed on the form they will test without. But of course, as dogs have to be chipped for the other tests then I guess people will put the details down and it will eventually become mandatory because no one realises that it's not.

We have been running our eye sessions to the next years rules at all our sessions this year.

Regards, John
 

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Hats off to you John.... So how do you see the BVA enforcing it? Will basically they just not accept a certificate if it doesn't have a Microchip number / tattoo on it at BVA head office? I take it they won't just *trust* that their vets have followed it through?

Where do you stand on CBP and profiling John?

Di
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Diana said:
Maybe before submission they will need to contact owners and ask for the chip/tattoo number.
The field is already there on the online system to add your dog's chip number - and if present, is also printed on the registration papers - so the basis is there.
 

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Diana said:
I wonder how things will move forward with CNM results as regards being published.
Wont be long - its being dealt with at the moment. AHT results will automatically get reported to KC for publishing.
 
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