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OH has just been flashed by a traffic light camera whilst collecting our son from college. The problem is, he did nothing wrong.

He went through the lights at green and because he was turning right he moved over to the middle of the junction to wait for oncoming traffic to stop. About 6 cars passed him before the lights changed. It isn't one of those yellow box junctions and as it is a single lane traffic light you can't wait behind the lights to turn or you would block the road.

There was no gap in the traffic so when the lights changed he then had to wait for a bus coming from the opposite direction to stop (the driver appeared unsure whether to stop or not). It is a busy A road at rush hour so there are never any gaps and there is no filter light. When he set off to cross the junction the camera flashed him. Then it flashed again as a car travelling straight on came up behind OH and went through the lights at red.

What is the likelihood of OH actually getting a penalty notice and what chance does he have of appealing it? He was clearly in the middle of the road waiting to turn right and we're hoping that he was far enough over for the number plate to be obscured by bollards, signs or railings as the camera is set well back. Or would there have been two sets of camera flashes for the car that went through at red behind him?
 

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For speed they capture two images as the device calculates speed by factoring in distance and time taken between markings.

For red lights I am not 100% sure re number of flashes - I think from recollection it is possibly twice also but cant 100% confirm or indeed explain the technical or legal reason why without some digging.

Either way he will get a conditional offer of fixed penalty if indeed the activation related to him and not the other vehicle.

Once he gets this he can appeal against it and even then if ticket appeal not upheld OH can elect for court proceedings and argue his case. The explanation given would appear to be a very good defence - diagrams or photo's taken at the scene may assist a defence further

I may be wrong but if what you say is entirely correct ,(and I have no reason to disbelieve you), then I suggest that in court you would be able to introduce a reasonable doubt - the court must find guilt beyond reasonable doubt.

Incidentally by law the registered keeper must receive a written notice of intended prosecution within 14 days otherwise a prosecution may be void in any case.

At this stage I would not be worrying too much & less so I might add after such a comprehensive reply. ;)
I cant promise it will work out but am confident in the advice I have given unless of course somebody knows something else.
 

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I don't think he will get a ticket as you have to be the behind the line on the 1st flash and in front on the 2nd, in other words, you have to go through the traffic light line on red.
I got 1 about 10 years ago as i lazily allowed my front tyres to creep over the line, i didn't go through the junction but still got the ticket, i think it was unfair but you can't argue, they want your money.
There is no way anyone can win in court, you will just get a much bigger fine and more points so no point appealing. but i think you are ok.
Gary and Toby.
 

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Perhaps I am missing something in last post but I can't see why a Gatso would flash to capture an image of a vehicle that has not crossed the white line.

Fwiw - I don't share view that courts find everyone guilty albeit being found guilty can yield a penalty & costs greater than ticket value,
 

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What i was saying was if you are given a fixed penalty and decide to contest it you have virtually zero chance of getting off as the evidence is there to convict you and all that will happen is you will end up with a bigger fine and possibly extra points, it simply isn't worth the risk.

In my case 10 years ago my 2 front tyres crossed the line and that was it, Guilty, nothing to argue about, i might as well have driven through the junction, the penalty is the same. my back tyres were ok but the front tyres were as guilty as sin. if i had contested a police officer friend told me i would get battered in court, you do not get off with fixed penalties.

In the case of Coco loco's husband i too have no idea why the camera flashed but surely someone will study the film before issuing a ticket.

G and T.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I am hoping the penalty notice never comes through, if it is checked properly it should be obvious where he was and why he was there. It should also show that he wasn't moving fast enough to have gone through the lights.

The camera was one of those that has 2 eyes, one above the other

It is a strange junction - the lights have at least a full car space in front of them for people turning right, behind the lights there is a cycle waiting area, then a "keep clear" space before the actual stop line, the camera is set well back (about 10 yards back from the lights) in the centre of the road. The island where the lights stand is a pedestrian refuge with railings all round and a bollard in front. Hopefully OH's registration plate won't have been fully visible.

Have just found this on the West Yorkshire Casualty Reduction Partnership site (expand to read about 2 flashes):
Traffic light cameras are triggered by vehicles that have contravened a red light traffic signal. Inductive loops that are embedded in the road surface are activated by vehicles passing over them after they have crossed the 'stop' line painted on the carriageway.

These camera systems take two photographs which are a second apart, these images verify that the vehicle has travelled through and past the red light signal whilst illuminated.
So perhaps both flashes were for the car that drove past him after the lights changed.

We'll know within 2 weeks!


The notice will come to me anyway as the car is registered in my name. :(
 

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PaddyOsc : Thanks -I understand better now. I agree with your friend that there is little point in pleading not guilty to an absolute offence if the evidence is all there in black and white, albeit circs given by OP potentially offer a a clear defence & worth a fight....I am, however, pretty sure OP wont be subject to any action re this at end of the day.

Fingers crossed for Coco-Loco & OH.
 
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