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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, my name is Andrea and I’ve just joined the forum. We have a 4.5yr old lab and a 1yr old rotty. I’m starting to think that our lab isn’t all he is supposed to be....... it’s not like we don’t love him, he’s gorgeous, his whole body waggles when he sees us, but I’m starting to have a few issues with him.
I’m a long time Rottweiler owner, have had males and females plus a couple of rescues as well as pure pedigrees that have perfect parentage. My husband wanted a lab, so along came Hugo, a beautiful bundle of yellow/reddish paws and fluff. People asked whether he was a ‘rare fox red?’ But he’s not displaying that distinct colour any more.

So apparently.......... he’s KC registered, ‘Broadsamlee Hugo the boss ‘ but no official documentation. Said it would come through but 4yrs later we’re still waiting. When we saw him the breeder had a large cage full of males, and another full of females..... I did wonder how one bitch could produce so many pups, but the hubby was so excited, it was his dog, and emotions had already taken over. None of the documentation resembles what I’ve had in the past or present for my rotties. We apparently saw the mum and dad, but on collection she’d changed her story.

So now, 4yrs on...... he doesn’t want to play with other dogs, to the point he is now growling, snarling and, despite me being in the way, tried to launch at my 1yr old rotty but instead bit me very badly on the leg. My rotty wasn’t being aggressive, I completely understand pack dynamics, their looks, dominance, dog behaviour etc and having 2 males in the house (I’ve lost 2 rottys since Xmas) (I did have 4 dogs!) I understand the turmoil they are probably going through, I’m still grieving myself so they probably are as well...... but an aggressive lab??!! He’s also launched at a puppy malamute 2yrs ago who was being a perfect little girl, and my dog trainer thinks it’s possibly fear aggression.

On top of this Every spring/summer he has terrible allergies on his paws that goes up his legs, and weirdly....... maybe I’m seeing things, but I think his muzzle is getting longer and thinner. I mention this because I have just lost my male rotty to a brain tumour, and his head changed shape and his muzzle looked elongated. He’s due his jabs so will ask my vet but all this is worrying.

Can anyone shed any light on what I’m experiencing, the breeder, or anything that may help me get him back on track?

Thanks, Andrea and Hugo (plus john and Bali!)
 

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I see no reason to believe he is not what he is suppose to be. The breeder is I think what I would call a commercial breeder and Hugo's sire and dam were both owned by the breeder. He is a mix of show/pet breeding.

His sire is Jimjoy Just Perfect At Broadsamlee. As to health tests, his sire is hereditary clear for PRA, meaning that although he was never tested both his sire and dam were tested clear. He has an elbow score of 0, (which is good) but his hips, at a total of 17 (9/8) certainly leave something to be desired.

His dam is Broadsamlee Lady Roxanne. She has no DNA tests, but as far as PRA is concerned, because Hugo's sire is clear then Hugo will be fine for that. Elbows 0 and hips 6 (3/3) which is fine (sadly Hugo's grand dam on that side had a hip score of 15. Not ideal. I personally set a top limit of 12.)

I would have liked to see at least one side DNA tested for EIC but there we go.

Regards, John
 

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Hugo the Boss is KC Reg, born 27.04.13. Litter of 9, 8 boys and 1 girl.
Go to the KC website and join "My KC" (top right) it's free to join, to look him up and his pedigree.
As John has said, this is a commercial breeder but you should have had his KC papers.

Chel and Juice xx 🐾🐾
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Casodil and JohnW for the info...... at least I know he’s genuine!

I honestly believe the breeder wasn’t great, definitely far more pups than 10 in the 2 cages, trying to sell us this and that at an extortionate price. The fact she spotted my husband as a novice owner, led by purely emotion, deliberately focusing on him and even refused to put my name on the puppy pack........it had to be my husband despite the fact John only likes the nice part of owning a dog..... I train them, walk and feed them, clear up poop etc etc. Many of my questions were ridiculed or ignored, for example as to where the actual dam and sire were, saying the food she was feeding was far better than the eukanuba puppy I’d had the rotties on.... tried to sell us some for £35 and I found it in my local country store for £9.99! In the end I bought a small bag and carefully changed him over gradually.

All that’s left is to sort their issues out!

Xx
 

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Bad breeders would not exist if people did not buy from them. Sadly a lot of people do not research the breeders, their breeding dogs and the puppies they produce. There is so much information available these days and is far easier to research using the Internet.

They sound like very irresponsible breeders and definitely not one I would ever go to. It’s important to check everything out before going to visit any pups-far harder to walk away after seeing tiny puppies.

Sorry to hear your boy has issues, fingers crossed you can get something sorted. Eukanuba puppy food is not a great food and is sadly on par with bakers/pedigree.

She does sound pretty horrid, I would have walked away. I know that sounds harsh but I just can’t be bothered with people like that at all.


If he has only just started displaying these behaviours I would get the Vet to check him over incase there is any medical reason for it. I’m not sure what you mean by - sort their issues out? If he was a puppy I would think maybe there is something but if you have had him 4.5 years there may be something else going on?
 
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It's not easy getting a puppy. I can still remember looking for and getting my first Labrador. By todays standard I did it all wrong. But then, in those days there was not the same information that there is today. The first of the health tests was still 10 years away and of course the internet had not been invented. But one thing is still the same today. A first time buyer does not know what he doesn't know. Yes the net is a great source of information, but if you don't know what you don't know then you don't know what to ask it. These days, if I want a puppy I just let my breeder friends know and job done. But that comes with time and with being known. But it was so much harder when I was looking for my first. I was not into showing or FT. (That all came much later.) I was into competitive obedience but at that time everybody was working GSD's or working sheepdogs so there was no Labrador information there. The only way of finding a puppy at that time was the adverts in the local paper. Certainly not the way anyone would be advised to look for a puppy these days. But no, it's still not easy for someone not in the loop even today. Below was my first one. (I even had hair in those far off days!) :)
 

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When we got our last lab over 13 years ago there was not half as much information there is now.
When getting cola over 3 years ago, I thought the only tests etc were stillhios/elbows.
Doing a simple google search ‘ buying a healthy Labrador puppy’ etc brings up a lot of information.

If people can google looking for litters then surely they can google the basics. It’s amazing how many people google for information on the latest smartphone or tv but they don’t look up important health info for a puppy.


Breeders are always the ones to blame when things go wrong and yes sometimes we know not all of them are great but sometimes buyers need to take responsibility too.

(I’m not talking just of this pot but I have seen some awful cases recently with not so happy endings)
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So when I got my first Rottweiler I got lucky..... very good breeder, although in hindsight I shouldn’t have got a male as my first dominant dog...... but I really learnt a lot. In those days we had a forum almost identical to this lab one, and thank god for all the information and support I received. Getting Hugo was a different matter...... he was going to be my husbands dog, he did the research...... and seemed to know what he was doing. In retrospect he has no idea about dogs what so ever...... then or now! I should have put my foot down, took control, but we weren’t together when my rotties were babies, and I don’t think he realised how extensive my knowledge (despite it being with Rottweilers) was. The breeder definitely saw him coming...... I even had to correct him when he was holding the wriggling little 6wk bundle of fur before he dropped him.

I should have trusted myself, my experience and intuition...... in all fairness I doubt it would have helped.... my husband is stubborn, he thought he knew best. He’s realised now that when it comes to the pups, I’m in charge.

I still have to hold my tongue though....... was in the vets...... Diesel my 10yr old rotty had a vestibular episode due to a brain tumour..... I put him to sleep in my arms a month ago..... but his tail was swishing rigidly from side to side, and the hubby pipes up.....’well he’s definitely happy! He’s wagging his tail!’
I didn’t say anything but the vet and I shared a look that said it all.

He’s a very intelligent man of the world kind of person, but if he can get the dog thing wrong, from buying to canine signs and behaviour, then anyone can.
 

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In 1997, when my new OH suggested getting a Labrador I was so excited! I knew he had grown up with a Labrador I so went and bought a book - - Labrador owners guide and read it thro' an' thro'. We went to see a litter that some very old friends Of OH's had bred. I was the only person/future owner that asked about hip scores and eye tests! (Please don't think I'm being a smart-arze, I'd studied me book). Loved Mom, picked a puppy and 14 months later Mom had another litter so we bought Cass a little sister, this time people were asking about hips and eyes Me and breeder/friend were so pleased.

Earlier in this thread, I posted info from the KC website about Hugo. Knowing that they also advertise litters on Champdogs I had a look (I know we often say have a look at Champdogs, but even there you have to be astute, "an' sort the wheat from the chaff), the only litter advertised from this sire and dam, at that time, was born on 23.03 13, 5 boys, 2 girls all black.

Andrea, I hope "this silly old git" has got the dates an' things all wrong, yes, you can go on "the net" and check it all out but the most important thing is Hugo and his/your happy existence.

Chel and Juice xx 🐾🐾
 

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Earlier in this thread, I posted info from the KC website about Hugo. Knowing that they also advertise litters on Champdogs I had a look (I know we often say have a look at Champdogs, but even there you have to be astute, "an' sort the wheat from the chaff), the only litter advertised from this sire and dam, at that time, was born on 23.03 13, 5 boys, 2 girls all black.
Sorry Chel, Broadsamlee Hugo The Boss was one of 9 pups born 27th April 2013 5 yellow dogs including him, 3 black dogs and 1 yellow bitch.

Dogs names:-
Broadsamlee Hugo The Boss/yellow
Broadsamlee Master Masters/black
Broadsamlee Morgans Lincon/yellow
Broadsamlee's Black Ozzie/black
Broadsamlee's Golden Saffi/yellow
Broadsamlee's Ollie The Mur/yellow
Broadsamlee's Our Trev/yellow
Broadsamlee's Shank's Boy/black

and the only bitch:-
Broadsamlee's Taste Of Honey/yellow.

That is from the KC. (I don't get on with Mark Roach, the owner of Champdogs so never go there. ;)

John :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I’m glad Hugo is on the kennel club website,

I understand this is the official list but the fact there are contradictions that don’t make sense when looking at other sites does make me a little suspicious. Either way, I love Hugo! He’s gorgeous, but when I get another lab I certainly won’t be going back to this breeder. Too many little red flags appearing. I think I said In an earlier post that maybe everything is legit, but maybe not.

On a plus note....... I’m taking Hugo to his first agility session this afternoon!!!

Oh god what have I got myself into?!

Thanks to JohnW and Casodil....... xxx
 

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Funnily enough, I nearly bought a black pup from this breeder last year. Lots of pressure to put a deposit down. When I looked up the health scores of the sire mentioned earlier in this thread ( he was 11 then) and the dam, they were both high- the dam’s were 21! The breeder also wanted a deposit without me seeing the pups. It didn’t feel right and I walked away. A while later I looked up the litter on the KC website and the bitch was a completely different one on there to what I had been told, a chocolate even! Very odd!
 

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Funnily enough, I nearly bought a black pup from this breeder last year. Lots of pressure to put a deposit down. When I looked up the health scores of the sire mentioned earlier in this thread ( he was 11 then) and the dam, they were both high- the dam’s were 21! The breeder also wanted a deposit without me seeing the pups. It didn’t feel right and I walked away. A while later I looked up the litter on the KC website and the bitch was a completely different one on there to what I had been told, a chocolate even! Very odd!
It's a high score now, but when I bought my first Labrador in 2005 that was 4 points above the BMS, and my two old girls, sadly just the one now with me, are from the same dam who had a hip score of 10/9 which puppy buyers would (or should) wince at these days. It just goes to show how the hip scoring scheme has worked, as within one generation it's now down a good way although these days the KC use the median.

Not heard of the kennels in question but sound very dubious.
 
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