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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
No way would i breed with Sultan. (Too many health problems).

Colour of dog.

Sultans, mum, was golden, his dad was black. The whole litter was black.

How do you get chocs.

I know, i am a bit thick.


Please, don/t worry. Sultans furry plums are going. Soon as he is well enough.
 
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gixju said:
How do you get chocs.
You only get Chocs if either the parents are Choc themselves or they carry the Choc gene. Some dogs carry all three colours, some carry two and some only carry the colour they are themselves.

Getting chocs has nothing to do with mixing blacks and yellows either as a lot of people believe.....Well not unless the black and the yellow both carry the choccie gene. :wink:
 

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OK - his mum was YELLOW and his dad Black :wink:

Both chocolate and yellow are recessive genes - therefore in order to produce chocolate pups, both parents need to carry the chocolate gene. Chocolate genes can lay dormant for many generations, producing more than one shock when a chocolate appears in a litter of a breeder who don't gene colour test their dogs

Black is the dominant colour, therefore, if you mate two dogs that don't have the same corresponding colours, you will get black.

A black dog can be

Dominant Black
Black Carrying chocolate
Black carrying chocolate and yellow
Black carrying yellow

A yellow dog can be
Yellow carrying Chocolate (No Black Pigment Liver Yellows)
Yellow carrying Black
Yellow carrying black and chocolate

A chocolate dog can be
Dominant Chocolate
Chocolate carrying yellow

Two chocolates bred together can NEVER produce black
Two yellows bred together can ONLY produce yellow

You do see chocolate stud dog owners claiming their pups produce lovely black and chocolate puppies - when in fact, yes, they are the sire of the pup, but the black colour is solely down to the dam and what colours she may, or may not, carry, e.g. if you mate a dominant chocolate to a yellow carrying black - ALL pups would be black.

HTH and doesn't confuse
 

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sue51 said:
You do see chocolate stud dog owners claiming their pups produce lovely black and chocolate puppies - when in fact, yes, they are the sire of the pup, but the black colour is solely down to the dam and what colours she may, or may not, carry, e.g. if you mate a dominant chocolate to a yellow carrying black - ALL pups would be black.

HTH and doesn't confuse
Very interesting :)
 

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sue51 said:
OK - his mum was YELLOW and his dad Black :wink:

Both chocolate and yellow are recessive genes - therefore in order to produce chocolate pups, both parents need to carry the chocolate gene. Chocolate genes can lay dormant for many generations, producing more than one shock when a chocolate appears in a litter of a breeder who don't gene colour test their dogs

Black is the dominant colour, therefore, if you mate two dogs that don't have the same corresponding colours, you will get black.

A black dog can be

Dominant Black
Black Carrying chocolate
Black carrying chocolate and yellow
Black carrying yellow

A yellow dog can be
Yellow carrying Chocolate (No Black Pigment Liver Yellows)
Yellow carrying Black
Yellow carrying black and chocolate

A chocolate dog can be
Dominant Chocolate
Chocolate carrying yellow

Two chocolates bred together can NEVER produce black
Two yellows bred together can ONLY produce yellow

You do see chocolate stud dog owners claiming their pups produce lovely black and chocolate puppies - when in fact, yes, they are the sire of the pup, but the black colour is solely down to the dam and what colours she may, or may not, carry, e.g. if you mate a dominant chocolate to a yellow carrying black - ALL pups would be black.

HTH and doesn't confuse
Always wanted that explaining, thanks Sue!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you all. I begain wondering when i saw a litter of pups on LF. All but one were black. But there was one yellow.

Why can/t you have a pup born, same litter, black and yellow?.

Maybe, i have missed something. I will re read.
 

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gixju said:
Why can/t you have a pup born, same litter, black and yellow?.
You can :D

In a litter you can have

All black
All Chocolate
All yellow
Black and Yellow
Black and Chocolate
Chocolate and Yellow
All three colours

All down to what genes the parents carry - all I've listed above is that the parents could carry - the only ones I've outlined on what they can't produce is the yellow to yellow who can only produce yellow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
One more thing.

Gixer. RIP. In the summer months, His coat turned colour. I would/nt say a choc. But it turned ginger. Year after year this happened. I don/t know what colour his parents were, or even if he was pure Lab. (Pet shop bought).

Sultan, for all his hair loss, and skin problems is black.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
sue51 said:
gixju said:
Why can/t you have a pup born, same litter, black and yellow?.
You can :D

In a litter you can have

All black
All Chocolate
All yellow
Black and Yellow
Black and Chocolate
Chocolate and Yellow
All three colours


Sorry to go on, and being thick

I have never seen or heard of one dog being a mix. Black and yellow coat. Love to see it

All down to what genes the parents carry - all I've listed above is that the parents could carry - the only ones I've outlined on what they can't produce is the yellow to yellow who can only produce yellow.
 

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Was Gixer Black? it is not unusual for black dogs to show undertones of chocolate / ginger when they are shedding - it's just undercoat and doesn't mean they carry chocolate.

The normal undercoat colour for chocs is a mousy brown / chocolate - if the dog carries the dilution gene, then it will appear almost navy - both are correct and normal :D
 

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gixju said:
So maybe he had some choc in him?
No - as per my post - the coat colouring has nothing to do with the colours they carry - the mousy brown / chocolate undercoat is normal
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
sue51 said:
gixju said:
So maybe he had some choc in him?
No - as per my post - the coat colouring has nothing to do with the colours they carry - the mousy brown / chocolate undercoat is normal

Thanks. Just me wondering. And not up to score on these things.

Just happy to own a Lab. Don/t worry. No intension of breeding
 

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sue51 said:
gixju said:
Why can/t you have a pup born, same litter, black and yellow?.
You can :D

In a litter you can have

All black
All Chocolate
All yellow
Black and Yellow
Black and Chocolate
Chocolate and Yellow
All three colours

All down to what genes the parents carry - all I've listed above is that the parents could carry - the only ones I've outlined on what they can't produce is the yellow to yellow who can only produce yellow.
sorry for what may appear a dumb question - genetics has never been a strong point of mine.

I am toying with the idea of considering mating Molly with a fox red - if I find a suitable boy... my first (slightly dumb) question is... is Fox Red - a very rich yellow?

Molly does carry yellow as her father was yellow. If I mated her with a fox red - would this mean I could get "pale" yellows in additions to darker yellows with also some blacks?

I have fallen in love with Jills (Ettinsmoor) beautiful dogs and would love to have a fox red. They are gorgeous.

sorry to hijack this thread.

Thanks in advance
Heidi
 

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Mollydolly said:
sue51 said:
gixju said:
Why can/t you have a pup born, same litter, black and yellow?.
You can :D

In a litter you can have

All black
All Chocolate
All yellow
Black and Yellow
Black and Chocolate
Chocolate and Yellow
All three colours

All down to what genes the parents carry - all I've listed above is that the parents could carry - the only ones I've outlined on what they can't produce is the yellow to yellow who can only produce yellow.
sorry for what may appear a dumb question - genetics has never been a strong point of mine.

I am toying with the idea of considering mating Molly with a fox red - if I find a suitable boy... my first (slightly dumb) question is... is Fox Red - a very rich yellow?

Molly does carry yellow as her father was yellow. If I mated her with a fox red - would this mean I could get "pale" yellows in additions to darker yellows with also some blacks?

I have fallen in love with Jills (Ettinsmoor) beautiful dogs and would love to have a fox red. They are gorgeous.

sorry to hijack this thread.

Thanks in advance
Heidi
You can have varied shades of yellow within a litter Heidi. Ash's siblings were some black and some pale yellow and some darker yellow, and he is a real variety of shades of yellow. Both his parents were black, obviously carrying yellow. His half siblings, ie Oak's litter (- same father different, although also black, mother) were very dark yellow, and I suppose some would call that fox red. Also some blacks.

I am interested to know if Oak will carry the same dark yellow as his siblings. But I don't intend to do any cosmetic gene testing, we will just have to wait and see!

Katy
 

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My favourite question which I am often asked is "so if a black dog mated a yellow dog, would the puppies be a mixture of colours? Black head with yellow paws?" 8O I've lost count of the amount of times I have been asked this!! :lol: :lol:

Ash is often a yellow dog with black paws, but that is more to do with mud than genetics! :lol:

Katy
 

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Hi Heidi

Just noticed my name being mentioned :D . Yes you would stand a good chance of getting a Fox Red from my experience, although no guarantees of course. I might be able to tell a little more if I looked at your girls pedigree. Pm me if you would like me to have a look.
 

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OK, being thick here! Being slightly colour blind I find this hard to understand!! :lol:

Heidi's bitch Molly is black, - her father was yellow, assuming her mother was black -

If Molly's mother was black carrying yellow then will Molly also be black carrying yellow? If Molly's mother was dominant black, then will Molly be dominent black, or will she be black carrying yellow?

Another scenario - if two black dogs produce black and yellow pups, will all those black pups carry yellow, or could some be dominant black?

And for the correct answer the prize is . . . . :lol: :lol: :lol: !!!!

Thanks

Katy

PS Heidi you may know that Molly carries yellow, I am using her name purely for the purpose of asking the question! :wink:

cross posted with dark waters - off to read the link! Thanks! . . . . back again . . .
Great link, thanks! I think I have got it now!!

Molly will carry yellow even if her mum was dominant black
black pups detailed above could carry yellow or may not
:roll:

Thank you!
 
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