[Becs]

I'be been off work sick so have been watching programs on TV that I never normally watch.

Today I watched 'It's me or the dog USA.' Normally I don't think a lot of these TV-Dog Trainers, but I was flippin' well impressed with Victoria Whats-her-name.

The situation was a young couple with a dog-aggressive, elderly JR Terrier, who had misguidedly, gone and taken on a young, choc lab rescue dog, who subsequently, the JR Terrier wanted to kill, and they had to keep them separated.

It was a joy to watch Victoria clicker training the dogs to be relaxed in each others company and them realising that 'good things happen' when the other dog was present. She picked up from the start that both dogs were living in an incredibly stressful situation. Gently and positively the dogs began to accept each other and in the end, they were living in harmony.

I couldn't help but think what Cesar Milan would have done in the same situation, but my guessing is that it would have involved 'negative' (ie bullying) training, a few body-jabs and pin-downs, a treadmill or two and a load of tosh about dominance.


Becs and The Gang

 

[Em_n_Bailey]

She is good that Victoria I-Don't-know-her-surname-either :lol:

She sounds VERY English on the US version of the show doesn't she

I have watched a few of her programmes and have really enjoyed them

 

[Fay]

I've not seen any of the USA 'Its me or the dog', but give me Victoria Stilwell over Cesar Milan any day :roll:

 

[sasababe]

I agree Becs - She is geat. That is the first doggy training programme I ever saw.

I am not sure about Cesear either... Think it's all pants really.

 

[MarleyandFlynn]

I saw that and was very impressed, it looked as though the lab may have had a forever home after all!

Have you watched Bondi Vet? He is worth looking at! Lots of labs and retrievers seem to be on there too.

Jayne

 

[Gnome]

I'm with the rest of you too, I much prefer Victoria Stilwell's methods over Ceasar Milan, who is simply a bully for most of the time as far as I can see.

 

[_Den_]

I never watched her when she was showing her programme in this country but the other day i was flicking through the channels and she popped on with her usa programme and again i was impressed, i have now set my sky to series link hehe

I have even put in pratice some of the little things with great sucess.

 

[_Nikki_]

I think Victoria Stillwell is great, love her methods and no comparison to Ceasar Milan!

 

[Claire_and_Willow]

Cant stand Caesar either, First time Ruby ever growled it was at him on the TV! all of the dogs either look bored into "submission" or terrified of moving by the time he leaves! I remember one with a pup who was scared of the stairs, on a slip lead being pulled up a flight of stairs by his neck repeatedly. Eventually the dog walked up the stairs, presumibly because cesar strangling him was scarier than the stairs!


Now the "Its me or the dog" lady i think is ACE!

 

[-Angela-]

I think she's fab too. Haven't seen her show on TV for a while and we don't have Sky anymore <woe> but I really liked the last shows I saw.

I met her once a few years ago and she's a lovely person too. Would be very happy for her to work with a dog of mine - not so for CM :evil:

 

[Kendra]

I think Victoria Told-To-Use-A-More-English-Accent-For-Telly-Purposes is great

I don't think Cesar Milan is great.

 

[Basil]

ooh one v's the other would make great TV, sort of a train off :lol:

Victoria could then go and re-train the dogs cesar has broke!

 

[_Melanie_]

Much prefer Victoria any day. I bought her book for puppy training when I got Skylar and it helped no end. Victoria also fosters a lot of dogs too in her own home.

 

[LostandFound]

I think before everyone puts Cesar Milan on the nearest bonfire, we should remember that the vast majority of the cases shown on his program have been requested by professional dog trainers (locally).

My friends brother works in America for the production company of the show, and informs me that CM is called in as a last resport to save dogs from death row when all other options have failed. The program will not take a case on unless it has been referred by a professional behaviourist.

Personally, I would rather see a dangerous dog given one last chance to change it's ways, before getting the needle. So his methods may seem harsh, but if you're dealing with a 200lb Boerbol, then clicker training isn't going to get you anywhere.

Just my £0.02

 

[Zensmum]

I have never met either but what strikes me is that Ceasar is at least hands on and the others tend to do the do it this way and are not seen handling any of the dogs and the old saying those that can do do and those that cannot teach ! Just my thoughts anyway . Have a feeling that he is dealing with some cases that would have been written off by others so anyone that gives a dog a last chance gets my vote . He does come across as someone who genuinely cares ( had me in tears when he was working with the shell shocked lab !) . I cannot take anyone seriously that trains dogs in high heals ( cannot walk in those thing at the best of times never mind whilst training a dog ) . ( I am ducking for cover now :lol: :lol: )

 

[...]

I think CM probably does have a place in the dog world as a Last Chance for some truely aggressive, hard headed dogs but I don't think he should be shown on TV using his methods to an audience of millions, who then go and copy his methods on their soft as butter but just a bit mischeivous pet dog. I also feel his methods shown on TV are often over the top and have seen many times what he calls a "Calm Submissive" dog, sitting there too scared to move.

He is stuck in a groove. His methods obviously DO work for SOME dogs, otherwise he would never have made a penny from them, let alone become a household name. I just wish he would extend his repotoire to include some positive reward training too and stop telling everyone that EVERY problem is due to them not being a good enough LEADER.

As for Victoria, I wasn't sure I liked her to start off with (she is a bit scary looking in a Dominatrix way 8O ) but I much prefer her general outlook and the way she tailors the "Fix" for each individual dog, rather than having a One Trick Fixes ALL attitude.

If I'm really honest, I feel all these TV Trainers probably have their dogs cherry picked for them, or at least they edit out the ones where they fail miserably.

I think the only good thing about having these sorts of programmes on TV is that it offers hope to those people who are struggling with their dog. Unfortunately the down side of the programmes is that people will see what looks like a quick fix and will try the same thing themselves while not fully understanding the method or the potential problems they could be causing.

Since all these TV Trainers have been aired, I have seen numerous people with Rattle Bottles and heard of people using water pistol and the like to squirt their dogs. I have also seen and heard of dogs now in Pinch Collars or Ecollars (all varieties), which would have been unheard of in the past. In dogs with a mellow temperament these may work as a correction but in a sensitive dog, they could terrify it and in turn make a small problem into a different and much bigger one.

 

[Basil]

Lost and found and Zensmum, I do see your points but wanted to add that Victira Stilwell has fostered and rehabilitated many dogs on death row, she just didn't use harsh methods and televise it.
-----------------------------------------

I like the fact that most of Victorias methods can (and let's face it stuff on TV will be replicated) be used sensibly at home without physical or psychological harm to the dogs.
In comparison Cesars show has to carry a warning for viewers at home.
I don't know enough about those specific dogs to know if those methods are a last resort, I don't recall any of the owners mentioning they'd seen behaviourists, but I do think any dog trainer/lover would surely not want harsh methods replicating for dogs that don't need it.....and I therefore don't understand why Cesar televises his show in the way it is.
Both the show and his books wreak of ego trip at times, sort of a 'look what I can do'. What he does is mainly behaviour correction yet time and time again we hear people say they are following Cesars training methods :?

 

[Basil]

Sorry crossposted and duplicated some of Jules post.

 

[_Helen_]

Yes, I'll take Victoria Stillwell over Cesar Stupid Salad any day :wink:

 

[Becs]

So his methods may seem harsh, but if you're dealing with a 200lb Boerbol, then clicker training isn't going to get you anywhere.

Disagree completely! From what I have read, clicker training (albiet with whistles) has been used to train killer whales, so why not a large dog? And why should brute force and domineering tactics be used just because a dog is large? (Not that it worries C.M, as he uses the same tactics on chihuahuas) They are still the same species.

To my mind, C.M. is a little man with an over-sized ego who gets his kicks from bullying dogs. I think he creates ticking time-bombs.

Becs and The Gang