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You do the math: top FT.Ch having an average of 1 bitch per week (52 weeks) at £450 = £23.400. Not much fun to make up a FT.Ch bitch in comparison, is there?

Natasha
 

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Becs sums it up really :D

It depends on what you charge and how much in demand your dog is - just as with breeding a bitch you have all your initial costs for bringing the dog in / campaigning it / health tests etc - but yes, the potential is there if the demand is.
 

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But surely a lot of money is spent on making a dog up to FTCH?, possibly not £23,000 but there must be costs incurred in entering field trials as there are shows?
 

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no dont think so Ftch Pocklea Remus only sired 200 litters at £200 a time if he was at stud today it would be £500 :wink: :wink:
 

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Money is with stud without a doubt .

However one wonders how many potential stud dogs are screened out because they don't make the grade . I am thinking of some professional kennels that may have a 1 in 5 perhaps success rate ( I am guessing and could be wrong :wink: ) so they need to make the big money to compensate for the discarded dogs and to pay for their expenses re kenneling and to field trial these dogs to make them up. They would argue that they need to make a living :wink: .
 

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Interesting topic.

The majority of dogs that have been used at stud would not be used regularly. There would be far more dogs used once in their lives than a hundred times. Even some of the top winning working dogs and show dogs, if not exceptional in some way, or have a minor fault such as a high-ish health score or live in an area with many of the same quality and type of dog nearby (so within 100 miles or so) have so much competition for studs they get only a tiny handful of bitches, if that, a year.

So the majority of dogs standing at stud, and I mean this sincerely, actually would be hard pushed to top the amount of actual money produced by a bitch with average (say 8 pup) litters, and say if she were bred 3 times in her life. So lets *say* 24 pups @ £600 = £14,000 or so. At a £500 stud fee (and few can charge that much unless the dog has some kind of exceptional quality bitch owners want) the dog would need to have 28 bitches book him (and you can be sure that would be a lot more than that actually booking him as by no means do all get mated even when they come for various reasons). YES the top dogs get that many bitches in a couple of years if not more.... but they are the tiny tiny tiny minority.

YES the layout for a litter, on paper, is more.... but not if you factor in a stud dog may carry the whole kennel on his back in terms of his 'earnings' paying the 'dog' bills.

And yes, personal experience speaks when I say that the figure of 1 in 5 dogs kept, making it all the way to being desireable healthy successful competition stud dogs, is not a bad estimate at all.
Di
 

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I think the Crufts BIS show winners, like Fabulous Willy might have done rather well as every Tibetan Terrier I have ever met seems to have him or his fore bearers somewhere in their pedigree! Which makes you think, just supposing there was some latent genetic flaw there, that doesn't become apparent for the first 8 years or so? What damage would it cause the breed as a whole? I guess with a large numbered breed like Labs, there is maybe more choice for bitch-holders than in a smaller numbered breed?

Just out of curiousity- Is there a certain number of times you would use a stud on bitches, say within a week, in order for him to have enough sperm to give the mating the most chance of success?

Becs and The Gang
 

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" Just out of curiousity- Is there a certain number of times you would use a stud on bitches, say within a week, in order for him to have enough sperm to give the mating the most chance of success? "


Dogs vary research shows. The quality of sperm varies according to state of health, age and prior infections etc. However the average healthy male could mate at least once if not twice or more in a day, for a lot of days and fire the same, or a perfectly adequate amount, of squiggles to produce a perfectly acceptable litter. I believe the data I read was a dog tested over ten days, three times a day, and levels did rise and fall a little, but never below 'acceptable' enough to give every chance of a litter.

The fact millions of sperm are fired and we only actually need 5 - 10 eggs fertilised (grin) gives you the idea of how little quality of sperm would need to be being fired for the dog to miss because he had run out ;-)

Its more about how often a dog will perform. Some would go at it like a rat up a drainpipe, with an hours break between, for a fortnight continuously (although they'd be a bit knackered!)! Some have to be sweettalked for more than a couple of times a week. Some will not GIVE a second mating - once they have mated that bitch they won't consider her again (one night stand merchants!), some don't look left or right, just jump on and chug away whatever the cirsumstance.

Libido darling, its all about libido! ;-)

Di
 

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Rarely. They tend to get better at it - quicker - so mating a bitch takes less and less out of them. None of the half an hour chasing round the garden needing a lay under the rose bush to recover before renewing the chase ;-) They fine tune it.

Some of them can get 'canny' and learn how to step back at the crutial moment to avoid a tie.... but then they soon learn they get half hour then have to go again and get held on, so its not a hard habit to break ;-)

Some very over used dogs who have the sort of mentality of being sensitive about matings can give up on it. But age tends not to be a factor. More about how they are handled and how the handler can get the job done rather than dragging it out, how many nasty bitches come to them in a row and they get bashed about, sworn at and disheartened, even if experienced, and how much they enjoy 'the job'. Not all males do. I know of a couple of well known dogs who can take it or leave it. VERY fustrating for their poor owners! Its a lottery if they will or won't perform even when the lady is begging politely for it!

Di
 

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No problem, hope it wasn't too candid.
Di
 
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