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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, we bought a Labrador as a pedigree, some people have commented that he looks like he has collie in him? and his ears seem smaller than they should be and his tail is exceptional long? my understanding from research is that there may have been some collie in the working type Labrador many years back but presumably he is still considered a 'pedigree' Labrador even if there is collie in him? Hwe was sold to us as a pedigree?
 

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If he was sold as a pedigree I see no reason to believe he's not. As to there being collie in working Labradors, nobody would ever admit to that! At a stroke their pup would be a mongrel and not allowed in competition. Working Labradors are just as much pedigree as show Labradors, it's just that they were selectively bred for working ability where show dogs were bred for looks.

John :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi, so the theory that they have some collie in them is impossible to prove/disprove? would you say he looks like a pedigree? just asking as I'm guessing you have seen many Labradors in your time.
 

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Really, nobody knows what originally went into the making of the Labrador. We believe they originated in Portugal and travelled to Newfoundland with Portuguese fishermen, possibly in the late 1700's. Obviously most people in those days could neither read or write so there is no documentation from those days so nothing much is known. Just about every book you read will give their interpretation on those days, but nobody really knows.

With the greater knowledge of genetics we are starting to get ideas, and one dog implicated in the makeup is the Cão de Castro Laboreiro which is a very old breed of Portuguese dog.

Once the dogs arrived in the UK the history becomes clearer. Initially Labradors were not considered a breed, rather a variety of Retriever, along with the Wavy coated Retriever (no longer in existence.) The Flatcoated Retriever (Which also absorbed the Wavy Coat) the Curly Coated Retriever and the Golden Retriever. Under certain circumstances interbreeding between these varieties was allowed. But eventually the varieties became numerically large enough to stand on their own feet and the gene pools were closed. The various varieties of Retriever became breeds in their own right.

From that day no interbreeding was allowed and any dog who was not "Pure" was a mongrel. So you can imagine, nobody would ever admit to cross breeding because it would make the pups worthless, not allowed to be shown, not allowed in Field Trials and financially only worth small change! (My first dog was a mongrel and cost me two bob, 10p in todays money! (Of course, that was before the present day "Designer Crossbreeds" selling for stupid money!!) That's not to say crossing has never happened, either accidental matings where the breeder did not realise that another dog had got there first, or even deliberately, where the breeder thought he was achieving a better dog by so doing. But one thing is certain, nobody but nobody, would ever admit to it.

But things have gone full circle, and outcrossing to other breeds is now once again allowed under very strict controls for health reasons. One such is the using Pointers on Dalmatians to try to reduce the uric acid problems in Dalmatians.

So there you are. Yes there have always been rumours, but that's all they are, because "IF" they ever happened the only person to know for sure would be the person who did it, and he or she is never going to admit to it.
 

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Hi, yes we got the papers where he is stated as being a pedigree, we saw him with his mother and were shown images of his father.
If you've got papers, then you'd have to assume he's registered with the KC. You can look up his details for free on the UK kennel club website x
 

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Are the papers from the Kennel club or some other register? Just papers that say he’s pedigree are no guarantee.
 

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If you own a Labrador you will always find "experts"!!! 😏
22 years ago I had my first lab (KC Reg, health tested parents), then had her little sister (same parents) and "some people" said they weren't proper Labradors!!! Because they were Chocolate!!! 👿
When I first took baby Juice out (almost 5 years ago), the "experts" said she was a bit small and I smiled and told them she was exactly what I was looking for - - KC Reg, health tested parents, her Mom was lovely and her Dad had been placed at Crufts 😎

Chel and Juice xx 🐾🐾
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Is it the case the the 'working' breed of Lab that we have that type have their ears up and the 'show' type that we had before had much bigger ears which would lay flatter, it seems to be a difference in our new 'working' lab and our previous 'show' type who was much thicker, bigger and broader, someone said that it could be because he is teething that his ears are back and up constantly? is that possibly the cause? or is it simply just the way his ears will always be?
 

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Is it the case the the 'working' breed of Lab that we have that type have their ears up and the 'show' type that we had before had much bigger ears which would lay flatter, it seems to be a difference in our new 'working' lab and our previous 'show' type who was much thicker, bigger and broader, someone said that it could be because he is teething that his ears are back and up constantly? is that possibly the cause? or is it simply just the way his ears will always be?
Ear set will be inherited, so depending on the type of ear set in his parents, grandparents etc, that's what he will inherit. There will be differences between show types and working types, but the largest gene pool of all will be pet bred, not shown or worked but simply bred to be pets. Teething has nothing to do with ear set ;)
 

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You have to understand that working and show dogs, although originating from the same original stock, have been selected over the years using totally different criteria. The show dog is selected for looks, and conformation to the breed standard, with little regard for working ability. The working dog on the other hand is selected for ability with little thought given to looks. Looked at like that it's little wonder that after over 100 years working and show lines have grown apart into what now almost appears to be two different breeds!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Ok, thanks for confirming, I agree that they are almost a different breed at this point in some respects, really didn't think there would be such a big disparity between the working type and show type.
 
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