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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First, let me say.... I have the love and passion for it..... and now was hoping to get some feed back from those whom have gone down this road.

I'm debating on opening my own kennel, and would like to here some views on the ups and downs.... My interest is breeding field trial champion stock, and for soundness of breed... trying to breed to what I feel are the best qualities of the breed... in both natural retrieve abilities, and stature.. I'm probably more interested in results then $'s..yet, can't breed only for the joy.. there needs to be a balance, mostly reinvested back into my breeding direction... has this proven to work for others.... I would not breed more then 2 litters per yr, and just 1 to begin.. and have considered using my current Bitch, and her pending litter next yr as the foundation of my meager beginnings... I feel, if I breed her back to the right champion sire.. her litter could be exceptional.. and then, would search out additions to compliment her offspring.. I'm very interested, it what will be put forth in the posts, whether it be a good experience, or the work load is difficult to justify..
Please do let me know how you've gotten on in your efforts...

Thank You
bruce and Elsa
 

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I think you are going to have to be a bit ruthless Bruce. Bit like the bloke asking directions and being told, "If I wanted to get there I'd not have started from here!"

Obviously I don’t know anything about you or your dog, so I can say this, because it is simply aimed at "Food for thought." Give a long calm appraisal. If you start with the bitch you have, are you starting with the very best available? Yes, we all love our own dogs, and if your aim is good biddable gundogs that’s one thing, but if the aim is a Field Trials Champion then you really need to start with the best material you can get. Yes you can improve what you have by careful breeding, but are you prepared to wait possibly 2 or 3 generations before getting to a good starting point?

Regards, John
 

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Good advice JohnW, as you know I'm in a similar position as Labler, but I want to breed tracking dogs. Thankfully the pressure is off because up to now there are no recognised tracking dog competitions in the country.

Laber I'm spending all my time doing my home work at present. I've written up a time line and method statement for my kennel, registered the kennel name with the Kennel Club in the UK and now I'm looking for good stud dogs from Denmark and Sweden. Hours of reading and writing before I even think of buying more breeding stock! 8O

Good luck mate. :wink:
 

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Tobias said:
Good advice JohnW, as you know I'm in a similar position as Labler, but I want to breed tracking dogs. Thankfully the pressure is off because up to now there are no recognised tracking dog competitions in the country.

Laber I'm spending all my time doing my home work at present. I've written up a time line and method statement for my kennel, registered the kennel name with the Kennel Club in the UK and now I'm looking for good stud dogs from Denmark and Sweden. Hours of reading and writing before I even think of buying more breeding stock! 8O

Good luck mate. :wink:
tobias
don´t you have tracking competitions in other breeds???
usually they let you do such competitions!!

i think every labrador, who is willling to work can do tracking...
it´s just a kind of education...
so you don´t have to buy them in dk or sweden...
my english girl would be perfect for it, it´s just me, who is lazy 8O :wink:


lg evelyn
 

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Evelyn, the tracking that Tobias is doing is tracking for wounded deer which is very specialised on the Continent :wink:

Natasha
 

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Contender said:
Evelyn, the tracking that Tobias is doing is tracking for wounded deer which is very specialised on the Continent :wink:

Natasha
i am aware of this, as 3 puppies of mine are doing picking up and tracking...
and as i said... i think most of labradors have the abilities..
so it is only a form of training
 

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one of my puppy labradors will do also a competition for pointing dogs....
they have to do also work before the shot (and pointing), and after the shot....
as retrieving fox over an obstacle... and working an artificel deer track of course for example.


our labradors have nose... so what is the problem??
 

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EvelynH said:
. i think most of labradors have the abilities..
so it is only a form of training
I agree to a certain degree - it's no different to that every single lab should be capable of doing a days picking up in the shooting field regardless of pedigree but as we all know some labs would do this job better than others despite of their training but because of intensive breeding of specific working lines. As you're from Germany, you would know about the Bavarian Mountain Hound and the Hannovarian - both breeds that have been very highly specialised in deer tracking (in fact, they're pretty useless doing anything els) and that has only been possible because of a highly intensive, 'shut' breeding program.

The deer trackers in Denmark have created a similar breeding program for deer tracking dogs, breeding only the very best tracking dogs so this is why Tobias and others are looking to bring in some of this blood BECAUSE they're looking to start their own line - no different to lets say that I was to start my own showing line 8O 8O :lol: I would try and out source the very best pups from the very best champions as this would 'save' me time, bringing in the best blood from the start...

I agree with JohnW: to start your 'own' line you need to get the best and strongest bitch (line), then when you're bred her to 3 different top studs and kept as many pups back as possible from every litter, then you can start to look at what you've got, which dogs to bring on and keep and then 3 generations down, you'll be looking at something you can call your 'own' line :wink:

Natasha
 

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From what I remember of the pedigree - labler's bitch is very good and is looking for a stud from the UK. There are a few kennels in the US that import UK trial labs and breed from UK lines.

I can't talk from experience, but I do understand that labardors from UK trial lines are sought after in the US. I'm guessing it would be important to make a name for yourself by competing with her, but she is a very nicely bred dog.
 

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i don´t know what tracking linies this are in dk...

lot of showlines do tracking here, because they are just slower, and like to sniff :wink:
so of course, they are the best tracking dogs in the world....

(in denmark not all dogs are dkk (danish kennel club) registrated, they have also clubs which are not fci recognised)

but you can slow down also working lines with a good training... and here we need more all arounder, because usually shoting people here have may be one dog...
so the family pet shooting dog, has to do everything, picking up, covering the ground, tracking...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
FYI, I pm'ed john, and he was very helpful, in both genetic testing needed, and his opinions... ty again john.
And yes, I too believe breeding will require 2 or 3 generations for the results im looking for.. I think most breeders would agree... the post was more centered on inquiries to the daily in's and outs of breeding-kenneling.. one woman, Ive spoke to before via PM was very candid in her experiences, as she was not suited to breeding... just a road she traveled..and shared with me... Theres much to consider in breeding in general.. the let downs from perspective owners, the health testing and expenses, not to mention throwing pups, whom might have HD, or any other genetic disorder.. then, the work... tending to a kennels daily needs.. My post was an informal way of getting my feet wet you might say, before taking the plunge... one begins any new venture with optimism and direction... understanding the full scope of the journey hopefully will afford some success... please, if you've bred just once, have a kennel, have a friend whom has...please post some thoughts... its refreshing to here your views.... and thank you all...

warm regards
bruce and elsa
 

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Hi All, Blimey this is an interesting thread. I just need to answer a few questions that I was asked.

Hi Labler, Yes my dog has the right blood lines to track and she does at least twice a week, but like you I'm after the best blood from our Danish cousins. This is quite a problem because most of their kennels were founded with British Labrador stock. Finding a full blooded Viking Labrador takes some doing. I have had many agruments with other deer trackers over the use of Labradors in deer tracking. The fashion is for Hanovarian/Bavarian Hounds and German Wirehaired Pointers. Unfortuantely owners of these breeds in the UK are using these dogs in many cases wrongly by putting them on the wrong type of deer or the wrong type of track. The Europeans generally are very careful with the breeds they use and on what type of deer/wild boar, they have traditions and customs that we are ignorant of. Generally it is considered bad form to use a Labrador to scent find and bring to bay a Red Stag/Elk or other large deer because the Labrador may get killed by a rather angry Stag, where as a Hanovarian has the skill and speed to dodge out of the way. :lol:

Contender (Natasha) thank you for answering the Danish questions, I am always keen to learn more on this subject from your great depth of knowledge. You have certainly helped me to form my ideas and plot my course on what so far has been a rocky and eventful road. :D

Hi EvelynH, In the UK any form of deer tracking competition is still very much in its infancy. Many tracking dog owners are interested in getting an organisation together and to start working towards an offical KC organised event but so far nothing. :(

I have been offered training in Denmark to become a 'Tracking Judge', but it is unclear if these qualification will be recognised by any future offical UK bodies. As it stands at the moment there is plenty of squabbling going on and not much action.

Unoffically I'm getting together with some deer trackers in the South West of England and we are going to run our own training and competition days. 8)


Hi again Evelyn, I thought that in Germany only German breeds of hunting dogs/hounds could be used for tracking competitions and for deer stalking?
Nice website by the way. Snow and bullrushes, very beautiful indeed. 8)
 

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EvelynH said:
i don´t know what tracking linies this are in dk...

lot of showlines do tracking here, because they are just slower, and like to sniff :wink:
so of course, they are the best tracking dogs in the world....

(in denmark not all dogs are dkk (danish kennel club) registrated, they have also clubs which are not fci recognised)

but you can slow down also working lines with a good training... and here we need more all arounder, because usually shoting people here have may be one dog...
so the family pet shooting dog, has to do everything, picking up, covering the ground, tracking...
Danish Labradors are also trained to bring down a wounded deer. They are not agressive dogs, they are just trained to pull the wounded deer off its feet. Very controlled very impressive!

The dogs that will be the parents of my dog have show and hunting lines. Most of the Danish and Nordic tracking champions have Kennel Brown Hunt blood lines somewhere in their pedigree. My pup Leofric (when I get him) will also have a good measure of this bloodline.

From what I understand of the Danes they have adopted German tracking methods and adapted them. I'm sure that I don't need to tell you that many of the traditions and language used by both German and Danish hunters are the same and comes from the ancient times.

I'd be interested in knowing more about German Labrador tracking dogs if you wouldn't mind Evelyn.

Many thanks. :D
 

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Tobias said:
Hi again Evelyn, I thought that in Germany only German breeds of hunting dogs/hounds could be used for tracking competitions and for deer stalking?
in my country every dog used for hunting have to do a hunting test first (not everybody joins this rule) and in some regions you have to work a row deer track in that first hunting test...

and most advanced tracking competitons are open for every hunting breed
 

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Tobias said:
l
Danish Labradors are also trained to bring down a wounded deer. They are not agressive dogs, they are just trained to pull the wounded deer off its feet. Very controlled very impressive!
all dogs used for tracking should do that really



>From what I understand of the Danes they have adopted German >tracking methods and adapted them.

don´t know about the methods in denmark... but the common german ones are not the very best one.

we have a new tracking book on the market...
and it is great.........

> I'm sure that I don't need to tell you that many of the traditions and >language used by both German and Danish hunters are the same and >comes from the ancient times.

why not... i am not so in traditional hunting......
just know things i am talking with my very "professional" puppyowner, who does tracking...
so when i have a question i ask

>I'd be interested in knowing more about German Labrador tracking dogs >if you wouldn't mind Evelyn.

i don´t think i am the real person for that...
as i did a bit with wischnu... but of course everything wrong....
and with my little one just wanna start now.....
but i am sure she has a big talent...
i only wanna do it for the hunting test (i think they do here 400 m over night) and not for pulling the deers down.
as i think you have to start that training at a very early stage

lg evelyn
 
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