Labradors Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
We have a 7 month lab alfie...every now and again he limps for no obvious reason..hes also alittle stiff when waking up,but not always!!! when he goes to sleep he lies in a very undignified manner...(not at all ashamed of what he has) the vet is going to x-ray him....thinks his hips might be the problem...any help or advice will be gratefully received,when I contacted the breeder I was informed it was our fault and we had over walked him...apparently he only requires 10 minutes 3x a week!!!...we had walked him 20 minutes every day....he never sat and refused to go...now we feel very guilty and are blaming ourselves...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,082 Posts
The rule of thumb with regards to lab exercise (incl. walk and playing in garden) is 5 mins daily per month of age: 6 months = 30 mins per day, etc. 10 min walk 3 times a week - what age was this meant for? 8O Not heard that one before...

I hope Alfie gets better soon, and that the x-rays don't show anything serious.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,313 Posts
Hi Barnsie,

Has he always been stiff or is it just recently? Is it all legs, just back or only one side?

How long have you been walking him 20mins a day for, is it on lead and on what sort of ground? 3 x 10 minutes per week is to my mind not enough for a 7 month lab. 20 minutes is not over long for his age, and I wouldn't have thought that it should cause extremely bad hips at his age.

We have always started off with little tiny walks as an 8/9 week old pup, building up to 1 mile per day by 6 months (about 20/30 mins), on lead.

What were his parent's hip scores?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
hi, thanks for that information, alfie has been having little walks since 12 weeks on a lead at all times and with myself or my husband...its his back legs (ok not good news maybe) first his left then last night his right but after 10 minutes hes like ok and you wouldn't believe he limped,unless you had seen him....our youngest son is partially sighted and has cerebral palsy and alfie is his best friend....alfie is soo calm around our son and walks beautifully....tonight myself and my husband are watching him all the time for clues....alfie is now hiding behind the settee as he thinks hes in trouble....what ever we are told we all love and adore alfie even after a short space of time.....and he definately love us....we are so lucky as the vet down the road in Graham Oliver and hes great in orthapedic surgery....so fingers crossed...will let you know on wednesday...thanks we both feel alot better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
xena
sorry forgot his mum and dads hip scores
dad mr bojangles 5/6
mum bryndafydd may blossom 5/11...alfie is insured so no matter what we will do the very very best for him...even if he wasn't we still would..
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,777 Posts
The Dam is a little high scoring. With a total of 16 that is slightly over the breed average, but if you look at how that's made up, one decent hip and one very poor, double the poor side and your total then is 22! quite a poor score. It is often the thing to mate a bitch with poor hips with a dog with good hips to try to improve things, but if it doesn't work then the result is trouble.

From the sound of your exercise regime then there is nothing much wrong with what you have been doing. It does not sound like you have anything to reproach yourself about. I just wish people would give more thought to their breeding. To score hips is pointless if you are then going to ignore the results!

Regards, John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks john....
no wonder the breeder tried to blame us....fingers crossed though he'll be ok....we were of the understanding that his parents hip scores were good..
perhaps when I contacted his fathers web page that answers why they never returned my email!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,313 Posts
Hi Barnsie,

I don't think his parents hip scores are likely to mean his will be atrocious. They aren't too bad really. I'm not aware of anything in Bojangles' breeding that could raise a problem either. That doesn't mean that there isn't a throwback though.

The hips would have to be really bad for him to suffer at 7 months.

Is he overweight at all? Has he had any accidents/injuries?

I presume the vet has checked his pads? Sore feet can look like sore hips.

My youngster looked like a candidate for bad hips for a while, and I was amazed when they came back 3/3. Better than both parents. She did have a minor cruciate strain at one point though after an incident, which maybe explained it.

Good luck with the x-ray - please let us know how he gets on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Good morning xena....
Thanks for the information, today we are going camping....but we are playing safe and alfie is going on his holidays to the kennels...there he'll have 4 days rest and be away from the kids.....

thanks to everyone for their comments....still feeling as though its our fault......will let you know on wednesday......

this site is addictive, hope everyone has a good bank holiday
barnsie.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
452 Posts
Hi Barnsie, sorry to hear about Alfie

Our lab Penny who is now two was diagnosed with HD in both hips at 6 months. She had a TPO on both hips about three weeks apart when she was 9 months. It was difficult for us to watch her go through the treatment, but she sailed through it. She's great, all along she never thought there was anything wrong with her and her surgeon has even said she's fit for agility classes which we take her to once a month. Hopefully the news on Alfie will be good and nothing like Penny, but even if it is his hips, it's not necessarily all doom and gloom. He sounds like a little treasure, they have such beautiful natures.

I'm off on holiday myself now for two weeks, but will check on his progress when I get back. Have a good weekend away and fingers crossed for Alfie for Wednesday.

Trina and Penny
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,777 Posts
Actually Xena he would be MORE likely to be suffering from any hip problem at 7 months because muscles have not yet developed to be able to control it.

As to whether the score is not bad or rather poor would depend on what you credit the uneven score to. Some time ago, at a health seminar, the geneticist, De Malcolm Willis was asked about a similar case, "Which hip is the true score?" He would not answer the question. Actually if you think about it there can be no answer. Is it genetic? Is it the result of accidental damage (As is often said)? Is it in fact not even there? (Being the result of a poor x-ray or a dog tilted in the plate)

There are usually clues to a tilted dog if you know what to look for but the hip scoring panel are not allowed to use discretion. They can only score what is on the plate. It is the responsibility of the radiographer to submit a good plate!

Really, a score of 11 on one side, without knowing how that score is made up does not give any clue to the state of the hip. It could be just a couple of marks lost from each feature or it could be that a couple of features are so bad as to be non existent. We just do not have the info to be able to judge.

Regards, John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
280 Posts
My Sasha's hips scored not very well, and when Sasha became lame in November 2003, the first thing the vet said was 'Hip Dysplasia'

I challenged this, even though I know nothing in comparison to a vet, and god was I right to. She actually had a cruciate ligament injury!

The same happened again in January of this year can you believe it, and yes, I challenged again, only to be right AGAIN.

Why is it that vets always assume hips are at fault when a dog starts limping, or is it just when a labrador starts limping?? Cruciate ligament injuries are actually now amongst the most common of dog injuries, yet so overlooked.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,777 Posts
Unfortunately Anth, with repeated Cruciate ligament problems you have to look for the underlying cause. Good sound legs don't normally rupture. The usual cause is an angled Tibial Plato. The ligament, instead of being at right angles to the load is set at a slight angle so the load is taken on a section rather than the whole. The fault has been found to run in families, so the hereditary link is there.

Regards, John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
We would both just like to thank everyone for their comments and are at the moment just waiting for wednesday.....the vet did say that the x-ray is being done to rule out or confirm hips....in fact he actually said that as alfie is insured what have to lose??whether alfie has this problem we will know soon enough....this morning we have taken him to the kennels and when we put him in his weekend home...his neighbours well the whole block were labs....old young...all the colours and he was fine....infact they all looked really happy....right must get camping gear ready....fingers crossed for good weather and for wednesday.....
kind regards
barnsie.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,777 Posts
Have a good holiday Barnsie, and try not to worry. Whatever's there is there and worrying will not improve it.

Yes Anthea, I quite agree. Trouble is, the perception of Labradors is a breed with bad hips! But is it true? In 2003 the Breed Mean Score was 16 and the Median was 10. This year it has improved to 15 and 10. This goes to show how the hips are steadily improving. The BMS is a sort of "Rolling (Weighted) Average" of since hip scoring was started so will always be behind the current trend. The Median gives a far truer view of current scoring averages. To put the Labrador into perspective, Golden Retrievers are 19 with a median of 13 (With no improvement since 2003) and Clumbers have a BMS of 43!!! On the other hand, Flatcoated Retrievers have a BMS of 9 and a median of 8

One of the problems is in the number of dogs scored. As of the current figures, a total of 49614 Labs have been scored. looked at from the direction that there were over 44000 Labradors registered in last year alone that figure is not as good as it might at first appear to be!!

It must never be forgotten that a dog is more than a pair of hips! That must never be the sole criteria for judging the suitability of breeding stock. But it MUST figure high in the equation. Hips can cause a great deal of pain if they are not right. (Here I talk from personal experience, my right hip was damaged in a motor cycle accident) When you look at the number of Labradors in the country, there is NO excuse for breeding from unsound dogs. It is not a breeder’s right to breed dogs without thought to their future wellbeing and at least one case has come to court where a puppy buyer has sued a breeder. Judges are, by and large, not dog breeders so tend to work to the letter of the law. In this case, "Fitness for Purpose"

Regards, John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,596 Posts
Amen John "There is no excuse for breeding from unsound stock" whether it be health ,temperement ,or just not up to standard. Regards Meg
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top