[Zippy]

Hi all
We've finally made the big decision to get a lab pup. We've been to see a litter and put a deposit down on one of the boys (don't know which one yet as they all look the same!!) but we did this before we'd fully researched the meaning of hip scores.... We have since done quite a lot of research into the hip scores of the parents (they are both working dogs) and have found that the dam is 4/8 and the sire is 10/7. We don't know what to make of these scores - what do you think??! We have been able to check the dam on the sire's side and she scores 8, the sire on his side doesn't appear to be hip scored. The dam's parents we don't know at the moment. Both parents are working dogs so we are not sure if this has any bearing on the level of the scores?
We appreciate that a good diet, controlled exercise when a pup and other non-genetic factors can contribute to the condition of the hips. Dogs with high scoring parents can have low hip scores and likewise low hip scored parents seem able to produce high scoring pups.
We really like the breeder and trust what he has told us so far completely, however as first time lab owners we would be really grateful for some impartial advice and guidance before we take this any further.
Thanks ever so much!!!!

 

[Scubabe]

Personally, the sire's score is a little high, considering he wasn't mated to a bitch with an incredibly low score herself, but by the same token, there is a lot more to a dog than just a number. The sire with his 10/7 hips still only totals 17 which is only a couple of points above the breed average, so nothing to be unduly concerned about.

What were the rest of their health tests like, elbows, clear eye certs, genetic testing?

Okay, so both parents are working dogs, are they dogs with awards in tests or trials? Are you looking to work your own pup?

I would much rather buy a pup from fully health tested parents, with those hip scores, than to buy a pup from untested stock.

Also, did you know that if you type the KC Registered name of the sire and dam into the KC Health Test Results Finder on the KC website, then you can look up the names and health test results of the grandparents and even further back?

 

[Zippy]

Thanks for the reply. No, we don't want to work the dog, it would definitely be a family pet - by the sounds of things a lab is more likely to work us anyway!!
We just weren't sure if slightly higher scores were more acceptable for working dogs than showing dogs or something. Obviously the main reason for a low score is for the dog's quality of life though.
Eyes of both parents are clear and we have had a look on the KC website to investigate futher back in the family tree.
Thanks again!

 

[frilly]

I would be very happy. Both parents have been scored.....GOOD. One side is slightly above the average, but hey, we wouldn't have an average, if that wasn't the case.

You sound as if you have found a reputable breeder and I wish you well with your pup.

Hayley x

 

[sue51]

A Lab is much more than a set of hips and neither of those scores would have me running for the hills - yes, in an ideal world you would possibly try to counterbalance a higher score with a lower one, but if they are a working or show kennel, they may have undertaken the mating for very specific reasons. If they breeding purely for the pet market (and I don't mean that in a derisory way) then I might ask a few more questions on the thinking behind the pairing - BUT

You also have to remember, as Hayley points out, 15 is an average (from over 54,000 scored dogs) - this means there are a large number of dogs scoring well above the average, and many scoring well below. As far as pedigrees go - the number of dogs being scored from scored parents has risen exponentionally in the last few years - so it isn't uncommon to find pedigrees where not all dogs are scored.

You could buy from parents with no scores - if they were scored, they may be lower, or they could be higher - and that is the element of risk - by buying from known quantities, you are managing (but not totally removing the risk) - sadly, you could buy from two 0/0 parents and not have a guarantee - NO breeder can give you this

Like Ness, I notice you only mention the hips - do the parents have clear eye certificates? Has either parent been Optigen tested Clear (or Clear by Parentage) - has one or both parents been elbow scored?

In isolation, as I said above, the scores wouldn't have ME running for the hills - but might well for some people - ultimately, it is your decision.

You have to go with your gut instinct - are you happy with the other tests which have / haven't been done? are you comfortable with the breeder? have you met mum, are you happy with her? if you have doubts other than the hipscores, then you would be wise to think about why.

Good luck

 

[Zippy]

Thanks for the replies and advice - we've been worrying and weighing up the pros and cons for what seems like ages, it's great to all your input.