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Discussion Starter #1
I've posted a few time about the nightmare time I have with Cassie.

Brief history: ex breeding girl from many tears. Goes psycho when she sees another dog. Initially this was only on lead but recently she has gone for other dogs off lead too.

I saw a dog behaviourist ...said she's just very excited when she sees another dog. But her behavour has got worse and this is just plain incorrect.

Saw a lady who runs a training class for rescue dogs and all their problems. She gave me a Gencon head collar, used it for the first time and she managed to back out of it, ran across the road and went for another dog.

Since then I have used a harness in addition to the Gencon as a back up. I felt we had been making small steps of improvement and were actually managing to walk past other dogs with a little less fuss.

Well until today! We walked to the pub and were sitting at a table oustide and she caught site of 3 dogs who came to the table next to us. She did her loopy thing but in the blink of an eye, was out of the Gencon AND the harness!! How the hell did she slip a harness. Well after lots of snarling, noise and expletives from the other people about how dangerous dogs shouldnt be let out, we legged it!

I checked the harness ( a mekhuti) ans it was pretty tight, managed to get parts of it a bit tighter but it def wasn't loose and hadn't come undone.

What on earth do I do now? I was at least feeling like if she kicked off I could rely on the harness. Now I feel again as though of she sees another dog an is determind to get to it, then she can.

I no longer have any clue as to how to tackle the behaviour. I have tried every approach, read book, spent lots of money on advice, bought all the restraint devices I can find. But what do I restrain her with if she can get out of a harness????

I love her to bits but right now she is in grave danger of being turned into a house dog!!! I thought the doggy treadmills on the Dragons Den were a bad idea but now I've change my mind.

Any ideas would be much appreciated as I am completely at the end of my tether.

Rachel
 

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rachel you poor thing. can the charity help you a bit. Give you some support this is really becoming a life or death issue after all...? have you asked them for help? To suggest a qualified behaviourist and to help fund the rehabilitation? You cannot be left floundering like this.... I'm sure you are in touch but incase you aren't, ask them... she is becoming a serious public liability and I would normally try and help a bit but this sounds far too serious to assess online.... seriously it does.... it sounds like you guys have been so lucky for a real injuryt not to occur so far.... and the minute it does sadly you know where it is leading...?

None of this is anyones fault. She has srious real issues, 99% chance they come from the fact she, as a puppy farm ex breeder, had zero PROPER socialisation with other dogs. Funnily enough some ex puppy farm dogs are extremely well versed in canine language because they only have ever KNOWN canines and it tends to be US that screw their minds up as regards other dogs.... but she sounds the opposite. Possibly was one constantly picked on and attacked where she previously lives, so like many dogs, now punches before she is punched.

Please I know one trainer made an incorrect diagnosis by the sound of things, but don't write them all off, and insist on some support as she had this problem when she came to you patently and charities tend to support folks in those situations....

Where do you live if you don't mind me asking?

Di
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Di, I'm in East Sussex ( not far away from you... my parents have a Deeds pup!)
I am so worried about this because I already feel she is getting a reputation around the village and I am so scared of what happens if she actually injures another dog. I think I will have to permanently muzzle her outdoors. Yet she is so good, chilled, laid back and loving at home. We were prepared to take on problems with and ex breeding bitch, but funnily enough I didn't think this would be the problem and it's getting worse.

I contacted the behavourist at many tears when we first got her, but it's hard for them to say much from so far away. I'd happily pay for someone myself as wouldn't want to drain their resources.

But I am desperate and very scared about where this leads.....I love her so much
 

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Di, Rachel is near me, and I have recommended a guy I know to her, its worth a try and he is nice!!

I was due to meet with Rachel and walk with her with Lilli on tuesday but sadly we have put this on hold just in case Cassie is set out to kill.

Poor Rachel, you are really trying hard with her, hang on in there it can only get better.

Trace xx
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Despite all this, I don't think she has ever actually hurt another dog, but it's all so frantic at the time I can't really observe what she does.

When I went out with the lady who does the training for the rescues, we came across a group of dogs. She was off lead at that point and muzzled. I was mafe to leave her to see what happened and there was a lot of barking and noise but once she had barked at all the other dogs she just trotted back to me. This is something I would never allow to happen on my own, muzzled or not.

Also, when she is introduced so a dog properly ( ie friends and family's dogs) she is ok is we walk side by side for a bit after some initial noise. We had pup the other night who was being transported to a new home with no problems.
 

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Tell me why you wouldn't? Because you are worried she would hurt one of them even with the muzzle on? I can understand that but it is a useful socialisation exercise amongst dogs secure in their own skins ;-)

Di
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think because the other owners wouldnt like it. I think if I had never experiencec rescue dogs and was just used to a "normal" dog, I would appreciate a loony aproaching
 

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No sorry I didn't mean generally in the park, I meant under controlled conditions ;-)

Di
 

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I have tried but again... too loony. A passed a lady the other day with a dog and crossed the road to avoid her. She realised what i was doing and asked if the dogs wanted to meet. I explained the situation to her and she said, well lets try them. But Cassie ends up on her back legs and I feel I can't let her get that close. But she wasn't muzzled at that point.

I've had a few theories on the psychology of it all, although this is all from things I have read and just applying logic. Some of these theories have been shot down in flames!
 

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" I've had a few theories on the psychology of it all, although this is all from things I have read and just applying logic. Some of these theories have been shot down in flames! "


Give me some instances of things you thought which seem to have been shot down.... I want to see how you think about it to see if there is a area there that can shed some light.... Only if you wish of course....

Di
 

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Rachel, I really empathise..how was she with Bramble by the way?

Anyway, having had a dog that has many behavioural issues, dog aggression, bourne from fear being one of them, I can honestly say that much of the behaviour we have found was because of us and our attitude to the situation.

The problem when you have an 'aggressive' dog is that you pre-empt situations, and thereby compound the behaviour, it becomes a vicious circle. We tried Muzzling, using a halti and all manner of contraptions, Di will remember me writing to her about Maia's behaviour.

I have actually found that since we started to relax with her (very tough thing to do) and watch her body language, we have less confrontational problems, and these tend to be only when either she is on lead or another dog is on lead. When this occurs I put myself in front and in between the 2 dogs and then calmly walk away, something that has taken me years to master and learn :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
She was perfect with Bramble. But I knew she would be and made sure we introduced them and went for a little walk together before bringing them both into the house.

I know what you mean about body language and I try really hard to be chilled so that my tension does get transmitted to her. When we first got her I was not expecting this to happen. So when it did, I was suprised and so I know it wasn't my tension the first time.

But her behaviour last night was quite shocking and I've never seen a dog do this before. To have 2 of us trying to stop her and still have the determination to get out of a harness is remarkable. But other than look psycho and make a lot of noise, she didn't seem to actually hurt the other dogs. But she sure looks scary.

She is very very tolerant of dogs she feels no threat from. So Bramble and Bailey (parent's huge 9 month old) can jump all over here, chew her ears, and no sign of problems.
 

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Maia is the same, all bluff, its noise and teeth bearing, even when she can get a lunge in its all bluff, I have never in 5 years had her actually lay into a dog, but you try explaining it to the other dogs owner, in actual fact, Maia is so well known by everyone now, for all her little foibles, no one actually takes any notice, they all kinda sigh and say 'there goes Misery Maia' :lol:

We actually found that the various contraptions we were using were compounding our problem, and when we went back to good old fashioned half check collar and lead we had more control.

She can't be dog aggressive Rachel, she would have killed Bramble had she been, this is how I look at it with Maia, she will have a pop at dogs entering our home, but she has never ever gone full out, and once the dog has been here for a few minutes, Maia will quite happily accept them.
 

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Luna has in the past got out of halti, collar and harness through over-excitement.

One thing she hasn't escaped yet and has tried to occasionally!! Is the half-check collar. It has been adjusted to sit loosely normally and tighten so that her head can't get out it when she backs up. Touchwood she appears to have stopped trying to escape it now and just tries to tugboat me over instead of backing out! So long as she remains attached to me I calm the over-excitement now.

Good luck with sorting out Cassie.
 

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Nat, Deep down I don't think she is truly aggressive, Just very confused when it comes to other dogs and what she percieves to be a threat. I think if another dog put her in her place, she'd be all meek.

So she's not the only loony to escape from a harness then. Today we're going to have a harness, half check, Gencon and muzzle! It'll take me half an hour to get her dressed!!
 
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