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Reading the VS vs CM debate on the other thread has provoked a question or 2.

Is it me or have we got more unsociable dogs than we had before these TV personalities/training methods come onto the scene?

15-20 years ago it was not unusual to see dogs being let out in the morning when the owner went to work and let back in when they came back, the majority of these dogs were friendly, well socialised etc.

You would walk in the park with your dog and very few people would become neurotic if your dog met with theirs

There were far more 'mutts' than pedigrees and you spent less time in the vets and on food.

Has anyone else noticed this change?
 

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Not sure. 20 years ago I was a child and there were a fair few very scary dogs in the village where I lived. Rumour had it that a big dog (I won't name the breed as they're lovely dogs really, just this one was very aggressive) got hold of a JRT and killed it. Then there was the little poodle who hated children but got away from its owner one day and came hurtling into the school playground ready to have a field day with us all There was a house not far from mine with kennels out the back. I was terrified of those dogs, but looking back I bet they were all bark and no bite, but at 7 or 8 years old I wasn't taking the risk. I'd often get as far as that garden, psyche myself up to dart past, but then chicken out and turn tail and go a significant detour to get home. Mum used to give me a row when I got in for seemingly dawdling up the road. Took me ages to fess up why I was late. Then she used to come and meet me a bit down the road and we'd walk past that house together until I built up confidence to do it on my own.

Nowadays a) children don't get to walk around on their own anyway and b) people (incl my parents) would probably be creating merry mayhem about dogs barking and frightening their child.

On the other hand, the dogs I knew in my family were all well-socialised canny wee things. Although my granny's spaniel used to sit on my lap and growl at granny if she came near me :lol:
 
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I've said this before Nat and I'll say it again. I think the present day Cotton Wool society, a lot of dogs are bought up in nowadays, doesn't help them at all.

Like you I grew up with dogs running the street and they were happy, fit and mostly extremely sociable. Now things have gone too far in the other direction, with some vets telling people not to take pups out for 2 weeks after that last jab (so potentially 14 weeks old) and in some extreme cases telling owners not to even let their pup in their own garden 8O . This lack of access to other dogs, people and just the general Outdoors during this critical early learning period, can cause a huge number of problems later on.

So many people are so wary of any dog approaching theirs now and so often they drag their dog away or just never let it off lead to do what dogs should do naturally. How on earth is the dog to learn if it is never allowed to act and behave like a DOG? :roll:

No doubt I probably annoy the hell out of some, as if I think their dog looks friendly, I don't recall mine, I let them go and say Hello. Occasionally they have gone up to the wrong dog and they have come away with a flea in their ear but more often than not they have already judged the situation with the dog and come away without me asking them to. So I just don't understand this general over-protectiveness of pups. Yes obviously you don't throw them to the Lions, so to speak but they do need to learn how to interact with an array of different doggy personalities.

I try very hard to socialise mine with all and sundry, without over facing them or mollycoddling them either nd I feel they learn far more all by themselves, without me interfering at all.

I don't actually think these problems have arisen since the advent of the TV Trainers, actually I think it is the other way round. Recent society has created these problems and the TV Trainers are correcting (or trying to) these problems, which mostly stem from lack of good solid socialisation. :roll:
 

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I think people are too scared to let dogs be dogs now, they act as though they are small people and expect them to have the same interactions as people.

You only have to look at some of the muppets with their problem dogs on TV programmes, people cause 99 per cent of these issues.

People look in horror when my labrador growls at their dogs, she never has done anything else, but they find it hard to accept that she just doesn't want their dog bouncing all over her, it scares her, and yet 9 times out of ten their dog picks up the message with no problems what so ever.

I also think the DDA and the press have done so much damage, people seem happy to fear dogs now and expect them to attack their small dog or child.

Sad times I think.
 

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When i was a little girl we had a mutt (lab x GSD) and she never went to the vets once, mum didnt agree with vaccines ect... she used to come out and play with us without lead...OMG the thought of letting my brood out by themselves now. My childhood dog also lived to be a grand old age of 18. She was never fed anything special and often would have our scraps after tea 8O . Zoe was a special girlie....she indrotuced me to the joy of dogs and i have never looked backed

I wonder why its changed. Chester vet bill stands at £5,500 at the moment, can you imagine anyone thinking of paying that years ago lol they would have been classed as insane :lol: :lol:
 

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I think lifestyles have changed, with dogs being expected to manage being alone in a crate or kitchen for 8 plus hours a day, and then play happily for an hour and then go back to sleep until the next morning. People's expectations of a dog and a dog's needs is unrealistic. Society is less accepting of 'less than perfect' regarding dogs and Society now thinks nothing of getting rid and replacing if the initial dog doesn't live up to the furry, four-legged dream they have been sold. I was over-joyed when I heard that cats have recently over-taken dogs in popularity for the first time since records began, as I believe cat-ownership is far more fitting for the majority of modern households.

On a positive note, there are are more dog activities and training opportunities around now for the average pet-owner to get involved in. And there are some good, positive-style training methods easily accessible if people want to do more than just 'walk the dog'.

(I can remember some very bad-tempered dogs from my childhood from working in boarding kennels)

Becs and The Gang
 

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When I was born, my parents had a Heinz 57 called Baska. I recall her being a bit mad, but I was too young to remember exactly how she behaved, especially as she was rehomed to my auntie when I was around 3 (I have no idea why), she was later knocked down and had to be PTS.
I don't ever remember her being taken for a walk :?

However, I do recall a dog which lived next door but one to us. Whenever I walked out of my house and up the road, the dog from next door but one would be standing either in the gateway to the garden or actually on the pavement. It wasn't shackled and it never attempted to go anywhere. I always stopped to give it a stroke, it was a very friendly thing. I don't know what breed it was, I recall it being waist height to me when I was around 6 and it being black and white and very very fluffy :lol:
I don't ever recall seeing an owner, nor do I recall seeing it being taken for walks!! He was called Tosca :D

When I was a week away from being 10, I called for my friend on the way to school and her GSD came sprinting out of the house, made a beeline for me and pinned me on the floor, flat on my back. I'm not sure whether it meant to bite me as the owner grabbed it before it could do anything else but I did end up with a graze on my chest (could've been from teeth, could've been from claws) and very, very upset. From that point on, I was really quite scared of larger dogs. Fortunately I've been able to get over that!

I suspect if the GSD had piled out of the house yesterday and pinned a 9 year old down, then talks would've centred around it being a dangerous dog and it should be PTS. 20 odd years ago when it happened to me, everyone was happy that it was doing its job of guard dog and because it didn't actually physically harm me (who cares about emotional scars, eh!) then it was left alone. I've nothing at all against the dog as I know it was only doing its "job" but the owners really really needed to make sure a potentially dangerous dog absolutely should not have been allowed to do that to me.

My memories of dog behaviour and how dogs behave now I believe is different but I suspect more people own dogs nowadays?
 

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Been thinking on this while I've been pottering around this afternoon, and as I cleaned up the poo from the garden, I remembered another thing....

When I were a lass :roll: the pavements in the village where I live were often adorned by dollops of dog poo. I remember standing it in more than once and my mum giving me a good ticking off and a lecture about 'watching my feet.' Isn't it a blessed relief that we don't have to 'watch our feet' quite so much now? Some things change for the better :) Nothing worse than scraping dog poo off kiddies shoes (I learned the hard way, my scary mother eventually made me clean it off myself!)
 

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Moj said:
When I were a lass :roll: the pavements in the village where I live were often adorned by dollops of dog poo.
My sister and I used to give them points out of 10 on the way home from school for size, texture and creativity!

Becs and The Gang
 

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I've lost count of the amount of time I used to bring dog poo in on my shoes :lol:

It's sooooo hard to get off as well!!

I remember white dog poo, the stuff of legend :D
 

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Ooh yes, white dog poo. Wonder what those dogs were fed?

Becs - I see now where your fascination with poo comes from..... past behaviour is the best predictor of future behaviour and all that :wink: :wink: :lol:
 
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I used to get a smack if I didn't watch where I was going and trod in anything stinky. It didn't seem to do me any harm though apart from teaching me to watch where I put my feet :lol: .

And White Dog Poo isn't rare or the stuff of legends....My dogs still do white dog poo, after they have raw bones for dinner. :wink: :D

Society is less accepting of 'less than perfect' regarding dogs and Society now thinks nothing of getting rid and replacing if the initial dog doesn't live up to the furry, four-legged dream they have been sold.
I couldn't agree more.

I don't think I have pink and fluffy memories about the dogs in the "Old Days". Yes I do remember MOST being fun, sociable dogs but I do also remember the two Black Labs (brothers) who terrorised the neighbourhood for a few years. One would bark but the other would bite and they would rush towards you out of nowhere. My Mum used to carry a hefty stick with her when she walked me to school, just in case we got attacked by these two. They both ended up being PTS after they bite a Fireman, yet up until then, even knowing what they were like, the owners still let them out every morning to roam the streets.

On the other hand I also remember my uncle's JRT and my Nan's Poodle, neither liked children and would bite if we got too close to them. The difference then was the dogs were going nowhere and if us grandchildren got close enough for the dogs to bite us, WE were the ones who got the smack for being so stupid and disobeying (we had been told plenty of times to stay away). I can't see that happening these days. The dogs would be marked as Dangerous and would either be rehomed or PTS in a lot of cases, whereas these two lived a happy, snappy life until they were both almost 20 and it was just accepted that some dogs were like that.
 

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. The difference then was the dogs were going nowhere and if us grandchildren got close enough for the dogs to bite us, WE were the ones who got the smack for being so stupid and disobeying (we had been told plenty of times to stay away).
this brought back a memory, my great aunt had the most cantakerous old mutt called boysie, he hated everyone except her, so we kept away or got bitten, and if anyone had tried to take him away or curb his behavour my aunt would have chased them with a broomstick!. We also had the lovely old lab from a pub down the road, who who would go visiting, he'd turn up everyday at my mum and dads pub walk in and look for a kind face.. then he'd put on his starving face and of course get a packet of crisps or an arrowroot biscuit.. (when did pubs stop having arrowroot biscuits.. and for that matter why did they have them in the first place??)

lots of dogs roamed about during the day, in fairness the roads weren't so busy so there was less chance of them getting hit by a car, we all knew the friendly dogs and avoided the ones that growled and walked home carefully avoiding the poo.

I think we have all become so wrapped in cotton wool espcially children and dogs, and i sometimes wonder if we have stopped dogs being dogs, I'm not saying its a bad thing but it is different and I'm as guilty as most, Bess is a member of the family and is throughly spoilt, but perhaps my aunts old mutt had a better deal, he got to choose where to go and when, he came home for dinner (scaps or old bones) slept in front of the fire and defied anyone to bother him, not a bad life for a dog.
 

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But along with packs of dogs roaming round pooing as and when, there were also too many litters of puppies because no one ever castrated a dog or spayed a bitch.
When was the last time you heard of a litter of puppies being abandoned in a cardboard box or worse?
Once upon a time, no one kept a dog as a pet, you kept a dog to do a job of work. I think it was once society started to look upon a dog as a companion that trouble started.
Barara Woodhouse - monster though she was - put dog training in the public eye and helped to get us where we are today.
Sherry
 

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I remember dogs roaming around too and personally I think they were nicer days mainly becasue more people seemed tolerant of dogs. However perhaps different as I lived in the country and also for some reason I remember that more bitches were spayed rather than the dogs being castrated. My parents had a lab and she was spayed and that was over 30 years ago :)

However there were still dogs that were scary, I remember being frightened of Westies, Dashhounds (sausage dogs) and quite a few Border Collies (working sheepdogs).

Eileen
 
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Blypark said:
Once upon a time, no one kept a dog as a pet, you kept a dog to do a job of work. I think it was once society started to look upon a dog as a companion that trouble started.
There must have always been companion dogs though, although these were probably just for the Rich, as otherwise we wouldn't have breeds such as Pekinese, King Charles Spaniels, Pugs, etc, would we. :wink:

As for Barbara Woodhouse, as a child I found her fascinating. Just to see that you COULD train dogs to do as they were told, to me was a revelation and it sparked my interest in training all animals. She also had a wonderful way with horses and did a lot to educate riders into being much softer with their hands.

When was the last time you heard of a litter of puppies being abandoned in a cardboard box or worse?
They just dump them on the doorstep of the nearest rescue centres now instead. :wink:

I would imagine there are just as many, if not more, unwanted dogs now than there were back then. You only have to look though the Freeads or certain internet Pet Shops to see there are still thousands and thousands of litters being born each year. The only difference now is that instead of drowning them or giving them away, now people charge money for them and when the pups don't live up to expectations, the owners give them away and get a new one.
 

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Definitely think that dogs are far too humanised now, they are treated as fluffy people, and burdened with the same emotions and intellectual capabilities of humans.

There were definitely as many unsocialised and unruly dogs back then, its just that it was treated as the norm, as was chucking your dog out of the back door to let it go for a walk. Now if you don't put your bin in the allocated spot it's in the local papers.

As for vets bills, with the wonderful advances that have been made, we can now spend more money than ever before keeping our pets alive and 'healthy'; sometimes I wonder whether this is a good thing, or whether the line has become a larger and more grey one.
 

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No doubt I probably annoy the hell out of some, as if I think their dog looks friendly, I don't recall mine, I let them go and say Hello. Occasionally they have gone up to the wrong dog and they have come away with a flea in their ear but more often than not they have already judged the situation with the dog and come away without me asking them to. So I just don't understand this general over-protectiveness of pups. Yes obviously you don't throw them to the Lions, so to speak but they do need to learn how to interact with an array of different doggy personalities.

I try very hard to socialise mine with all and sundry, without over facing them or mollycoddling them either nd I feel they learn far more all by themselves, without me interfering at all.

I don't actually think these problems have arisen since the advent of the TV Trainers, actually I think it is the other way round. Recent society has created these problems and the TV Trainers are correcting (or trying to) these problems, which mostly stem from lack of good solid socialisation.
I have to say I'm in agreement! And I usually find the other owner cuts short the dog interaction before they've even begun greeting properly. Luna is beginning to recognise which dogs are up for fun and which ones need respect which is just want I wanted!

I just need to educate my little cousin, who visited today, that calling Luna's name will make her come to him NOT go away!! :roll:

I can't comment much in the change over past 20years as I can't remember having much contact with dogs at all back then. I do think that people are too over-protective of their dogs and mis-read their dogs' communications a lot. I also find that sometimes children and dogs learn more the less you interfere and I'm a teacher!!! Sometimes the less said the better!
 
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