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Discussion Starter #1
I know there was a similar thread to this but for hips (which I wouldn't put my dog through GA/ pay for if not breeding)

But is it worth while to consider doing an optigen and CNM test for a pet?

Am I right in thinking both tests are non invasive and relatively cheap?

I'm not sure what I'd do with the results, I suppose it's a nice to know. If it's good news that is!
Other than a few progeny of Basils Dad to help guess it doesn't look like either Dams nor Sires kennel and line has or will test for either.....so if I want to know i'm going to have to test myself! :)

I know it's still uncommon for breeders to test and I don't want to name names, but some of Basils lineage is a really popular stud kennel :? - so is it really the cost that stops them or the fact that nothing nasty has ever showed yet :?
 

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Sarah I know nothing about Basil's pedigree but in Working Labs the ones that are not testing are aware that there is probably something nasty lurking and would rather not know about it!!

Optigen testing is quite expensive, but CNM not so bad.

In my opinion as Basil is a pet there is little benefit in you testing. You will just worry yourself to death!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well i'm hoping the results would be good news so no need to worry!

I didn't realise optigen was expensive though, it was just a nice to do if it was cheap really following the thread on hip testing a pet.

Basils show bred (heaven knows what went wrong when you look at him!)
so might that be why the kennels haven't tested? As they are perceived to be working problems?
 

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I wouldn't bother doing any testing if I wasn't going to breed from a dog - take Danny and Jake for example, Jake has had all the tests, whereas Danny hasn't had any and will not be tested. If Danny was to develop some kind of problem that could have been identified by testing then so be it, but I will deal with that as and when it occurs.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Rach, I suppose that's the crux of it, a result doesn't change anything at all in the case of an eye test. It's not like you can take things more easily on a pets eyes in the same way you might hips!

Jill- am i rgiht in thinking that even amongst breeders the perception is still very much that they are working problems? (even though they are not)
 

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In the case of CNM Sarah it is maybe still perceived as a working lab problem.

As far as Optigen is concerned it is across the board, both Show and Working but show started testing way before working.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Jill, that is both interesting and alarming!
 

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I know Basil's dad hasn't been tested and neither have many of the dogs behind him. I know Walpole is clear - but of course that means little if the status of all the other dogs remains unknown.

Deep down I can understand why some are still not testing, because there is an unfair stigma attached to dogs that come back carriers / affected :( and it just seems easier to have an untested stud :(

I have to say, if everything else was in order, I would use an untested dog on a clear bitch, safe in the knowledge that the worst the pups could be is carriers (i.e. will never develop the condition).

I think it is a real shame that pet owners have to ask this question - don't take that disrespectfully because it wasn't meant that way - but what would you do if he came back affected for PRA? spend the rest of his days worrying rather than enjoying him? when if current statistics are anything to go by, very few affected dogs actually go blind in their lifetime. Conversely, if he is a carrier / clear, that would make you sleep easier in your bed at night - yet chances are, whatever his status, he is still going to be very unlucky to actually develop the condition.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I think PRA testing should be mandatory - that way, any perception of stigma attached to a stud dog not found to be clear is removed - providing the results are then used responsibly, and everyone breeds to deliberately avoid producing affected dogs, then this is one less thing for pet owners to worry about.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I wouldn't say I'm worried but I am a dot my I's and cross my T's kind of person and I didn't know then what I know now.....seemingly the only way of finding out would be to test.

In reality I'd do nothing with an affected result, get upset initially, worry, perhaps cherish our time together even more and of course share it with the breeders of parents and owners of siblings.

I think what saddens and angers me about not testing is that some of these studs (not particularly Basil dad but others) are 'top stud dogs' of a year and lets be honest a lot of pet bitches go to them who may not know/ choose to test and so that's a huge number of pups that are also 'unkown'. I'll never understand why people would choose to bury there head in the sand and not know if they are passing on a problem. I wonder if they know but don't share the results, perhaps because one in their tribe is affected and it would look odd to have 5 clears and 1 decalred as not tested.
 

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Basil said:
I wonder if they know but don't share the results, perhaps because one in their tribe is affected and it would look odd to have 5 clears and 1 decalred as not tested.
It's a fair question I guess :( Although, in my experience, those kennels with clear stud dogs want to shout it from the rooftops :(

All my older dogs are tested clear or CBP -but I will also test the CBP before they get involved in any breeding. I've got three CBP and a pup for testing - so should get my backside in gear really :oops: or plans will be hitting me in the face before I know it :roll: (anyone know of any Optigen clinics on soon?)

I also need to get my backside in gear for colour coat testing which has been sitting on a back burner for quite some time now :oops:
 

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" No Optigen is certainly not a Working Lab problem and it would now appear that CNM is not just Working Labs either. "

Thats it Jill, rub it in ;-) ;-) ;-)

Di
 

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Sarah, many people will not test top winning stud dogs because the bread and butter of a stud dogs work is pet bitches never shown or worked, or, if they are lucky, occasionally averagely shown bitches. Therefore to come back a Carrier which is extremely likely for a small handful of the top guys would render them unable to keep this quiet from anyone really and so would have to start them only acceptaing clear tested bitches, of which in the pet/occasionally shown market there are few. Mostly because tehy deem it unnecessary as they will just use a Clear dog rather than think about using a Carrier dog when there are so many Clear tested dogs out there.

This is speaking show and working lines.

However to be honest, funnily enough NOW, the top show kennels seem not to have tested, or have tested before the publication of results became compulsory and are keeping it to themselves. Where as most or many of the top working lines now realise that most of the winning field trial lines have plenty of proven carriers in there and ARE testing. Possibly for ethical reasons, possibly for commercial reasons because if 'the stud dog down the road' is tested clear, they will lose studs if THEIRS is not.

No I would NOT test Basil. But however the same counter argument well put by helen-S on the 'Hips' thread counts for here. Extra info for breeders.

I REALLY don't think you need to dot the 'I's' for other people sarah really I don't. Just enjoy him.
Di
 

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Di, yes I agree with you - this time: not to test! :) If Basil were tested and came clear there are still three options left for the parent's eye status: both of them could be carriers, or one carrier and one clear or both parents clear, too!

And the breeder would be none the wiser... :roll: Gene tests should be done by the breeder prior to breeding.
 

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Should you test Sarah? Look at it like this.

If you are breeding then I consider it essential to know exactly what you have, because it could affect what dog you choose. For instance, if your dog was a carrier then you would only want to use him with clears.

But if you are not breeding then:-

If you had a problem with being affected by CNM then by the age of Basil you would know! And if he is a carrier then he will never get it so no problem.

If he is Optigen tested and is clear or carrier then again he will never have a problem. The big problem comes if he is DNA affected. In that case far and away the majority of dogs will NEVER develop GPRA before dying of old age, but you will spend the next 12 to 14 years worrying!

My advice is to leave well alone. It's better for your blood pressure! :wink:

Regards, John
 

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Im rather confused now - not hard I know !!

so am I right in thinking there are 2 eyetests - I have read Dis post on optigen testing - so that is once in the dogs life - but is there a second test done annually ?

jenny
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yes Jenny,

As a bare minimum a pup should have parents with annual eye certificates from either BVA/AHT/ECVO (in addition to scored hips)

Optigen is a once in a liftetime eye test, it is becomnig more common but you will still see many litters where neither parents have been tested.
 

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Jenny I hope this link explains it all to you.

The paper eye certificate tests for several eye problems. Optigen is a DNA blood test testing for only the most serious of the things the paper one does - GPRA. And tests for throughout the dogs life, where as the paper test only looks at problems on a year by year basis.

http://www.labradorforums.co.uk/ftopict-18652.html

Di
 
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