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Discussion Starter #1
Heys!!

Sonny is 11weeks today and I'm thinking more about his food as it's due replaced soon.

I continued what the breeder was feeding and that is Royal Canin Labrador Retriever Junior ---- http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/products/products/dog-products/breed-health-nutrition/labrador-retriever-junior

I've read good and bad about this food; the breeder seems to swear by it but that's only their opinion. The breeder did however recommend that from 8weeks I was to feed 70grams 4x (280g daily) and by going off the quide chart on the bag (which can be seen on the above link), it seemed like an awful lot to me; I decided on 60g then to 70g. Apparently she has advised to up the feed from this week to 320g daily but that still seems like a lot compared to the guide.

Anyway; I must only have like 2 weeks left in the bag for feeds and with xmas coming and post; I need to decide and order very sharpish.

I'm into Nutrition a lot but I know very little about dog Nutrtion, however when I look at the ingredients for Royal Canin i'm feeding, I don't' feel all that particularly impressed.

Example: Rice, dehydrated poultry protein, maize, vegetable protein isolate*, maize gluten, animal fats, hydrolysed animal proteins, minerals, beet pulp, fish oil, vegetable fibres, soya oil, fructo-oligo-saccharides, psyllium husks and seeds, hydrolysed yeast (source of mannooligo-saccharides), hydrolysed crustaceans (source of glucosamine), borage oil, marigold extract (source of lutein), hydrolysed cartilage (source of chondroitin).

I'm very wary of buying brand spefific products. I.E. Labrador Junior food as I think your just paying for the Labrador on the front. Also don't like the fact that there is lots of hydrolysed this, gluten that,

However; I'm not the one eating it, and I also am very unsure as it's my first puppy to actually determine how good it's doing him. He seems to absolutely love it (or food in general obviously) as he wolfs it down as if he's never been fed before. Also gets extremely hyper as soon as he sees me preparing or measuring. His poops are I guess okay looking, they are shaped and not hard nor very soft either; I'd say they are usual a good consistency that I can easily pick up. He's had a few iffy soft poops and diarrhoea moments but I'd put that down to jags and wormers etc. Although from the day I got him he had flatulence a few times a day; 3 weeks in he still does it but not as often. Does get Hiccups incredibly a lot but I'm not sure if that's food related. He was also scratching his neck and still does here and there with collar on or off; but I'm not sure if that's down to the collar or not; even though he's used to it and doesn't always wear it only when going outside right now.

His poop though is very irregular; he only poo's three times out of four meals and sometimes just two times. On a good ideal day he'll poop morning; afternoon then luckily before bed which is fine but Sometimes he poops on awakening and then goes Breakfast; Lunch; Dinner and still hasn't pooped yet. It's normally though around 8 hours between each poop on a good day. I'm not sure if this is a bad or good thing but looking at the ingrediants; I'd put this down to psyllium husks and seeds.... I'm very aware that Psyllium husks are an excellent source of soluble dietary fibre and I've taken them myself before; perhaps it's far too much for him and hence the long delay.

Really though I'm unsure if I should just stick with this food for about batch and see or take the hit and try something else that I think is more nutritious.

My price bracket is below £49.99 for ideally a 15kg bag.

I've been looking at JWB, SIMPSONS PREMIUM, WAINWRIGHTS but really it's a mine-feild as you know.

Thanks,
LB
 

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Find one you are happy with ingredients wise.
Personally I wouldn't feed royal canin

I feed Simpsons and can't recommend enough. Fab food and quick easy delivery. I use the grain free version
 

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I feed Skinners Salmon Adult food to my 2 adult dogs and like that I understand the ingredients list. It is indeed a mine-field!
 

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I think its each to his own.

I breed and use RC Mother and baby dog. However I ween on to weetabix first.

I use RC for my puppies and send all my new 'parents' home with a small bag. I have not had any problems with RC, in fact the opposite but you do have to find a food that not only suits your furbaby but also your pocket.

I have also tried tinned foods and other types of foods.

Buy small bags of foods to try until you find the correct one for all of you.

Enjoy your new baby

Martine CoCo and Truffle
 

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Discussion Starter #7
See what puts me off Royal Canin also is that the breeder is pushing it as the very best and I believe the breeder to be influenced by the brand as they get "breeder privileges " allowing them to purchase food far cheaper, and providing "puppy packs". Effectively "buying" brand loyalty. Although the puppys are her main concern and I'm very sure, if it didn't suit the pups the breeder wouldn't use it.

I don't think it's a 'bad' food... I just believe myself that there is far better out there fro the value.

At the moment I'm looking at...
--- Simpsons Premium 80/20 Grain Free Puppy Food which I can't find cheaper than £56.95 for a 12kg bag.
--- Eden Muit-Meat and Fish formula also looks very appealing and it's a 15kg bag for £53.99.
---Finest Fish4Puppies is also 12kg at £54.00

But both of them are slightly just above what I budgeted, but obviously I'm paying the premium because it's grain-free I guess.

Other than that... I guess it's JWB or Wainrights.

Right now; I think i'll just buy another bag of Royal Canin to keep things safe and settled over xmas.
 

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I fed Maisy and Meghan both the Labrador Adult and Puppy Royal Canin and it is quite high in fat and in my own opinion the breed specific thing is a gimmick! Meghan is now on Royal Canin Large Breed (Neutered) food and she is happy with that. Royal Canin made maisy itch and scratch a fair bit so we put her on Lily's Kitchen and what an improvement!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It seems RC Lab Junior I have has apparently 33% Protein and 14.0% Fat but only 2.98% of Omega 6 & 0.4% of EPA/DHA (%) .. Also has 28.0% Starch... I like the fact that it has Vitamin E and Lutein for Eyes etc.

Still though; It's just a gamble on chance to change and then end up upsetting his stomach.
 

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As a breeder, there are SEVERAL companies who offer a breeder scheme so I would imagine your breeder has found it to be right for the dogs she produces. The rewards aren't staggering from these companies anymore.... they used to be, but they won't be a great 'pull'......And I would stick with that. I won some a few times and think it is a fabulous food.... and with 9 dogs if I could afford it, I would be feeding it, but I can't. If I had 1 or 2 dogs, I wouldn't hesitate, it would be my food of choice from feeding it here and there.... ESPECIALLY as your puppy is doing well on it.

The quantity you quote is exactly what i would be telling my puppy buyers to be feeding to at your pups age. Forget the bag... I'd black out those 'bag charts' if I could. ;-) At 11 weeks i'd have him on 4 meals a day for about another fortnight or so, and around 300gms a day in total.

If you ask ten people, they will advise you to try 10 different foods. Stick with what is working, I say anyway. More pups suddenly start getting icky stomachs when their food that was working great, is changed, around this age than for any other reason.... then you are at the vets, then they have guiardia and on it goes. I'd change at the 6 months mark if you feel the need to move away as its going well.

Di
 

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Simpsons do a sensitive range which is potato and meat based - no grain ;) and within your price bracket
 

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My GSP's breeder uses Royal Canin for her 8 dogs and finds it brilliant. She has tried other foods in the past but since she started using RC a few years ago, has found it to be the best.

Yes, on paper the ingredients don't look to be great but alot of top breeders use it with excellent results :roll:

I had Leo, my GSP on the RC Medium adult in the summer whilst we were moving and I couldn't give him any raw and he did very well on it. Alot of the kibbles with "good" ingredients lists upset him so something in the food suited him. Most of their ingredients are hydrolysed which could have made a difference. Who knows???

If your pup is only pooing two or three times a day then I certainly wouldn't change food...you may find he starts going 5 or 6 times a day instead on a different food!
 

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I'm another one who doesn't *buy* (quite literally) the life stage or breed specific foods. I raw feed, but when I did have a litter of pups, I weaned them straight on to Simpsons Premium Adult Lamb and Potato, and was very, very pleased with the results, and would use it again. In fact the lady who bred Rhuna (my flatcoat) now feeds half raw and half kibble, as she finds it easier, and the kibble she found the best for her dogs has been Simpsons.

Out of Tau's pups, there as one who I suspected may be switched onto another food, and that food was RC, as pushed by the vet. The last meet up we had, which is a few months ago now, the one with the worst coat, teeth and behaviour was the one who'd been switched onto RC. It's too expensive for me, and the ingredients are pretty poor quality in comparison to other foods available for the same price, or less.

Edited to add, Simpsons do have a breeders scheme, which I have joined, and you do get a small discount. However, you don't need to be a breeder to join, and I passed on any discounts to the puppy owners :)
 

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I use Royal Canin for the mother and pups when I breed a litter and my 18 month girl is still on it and will stay on it. Although the ingredients are a bit iffy, it is a super food and I get the results I want. I prefer the Labrador breed specific Royal Canin, as they have researched the breed and the food and it does, in my opinion benefit the breed - keeps the weight down, good eye health, joint supplements, keeps the waterproof coat in top condition etc. My puppy buyers can change the food to whatever they want but I do offer recommendations - Arden Grange for example. I swear by Royal Canin when breeding.

Just be careful feeding a young puppy an adult food, unless you know the calcium levels. I rang Simpsons last year to check the levels and they range from 1.9% in the Salmon & Potato to 2.4% in the Lamb & Potato - which is far too high for young, growing puppies. Even Simpsons advised me not to feed the Lamb & Potato adult to young pups as it can affect bone growth, that is why many companies do a puppy food with lower calcium / phos levels. An adult food is fine for pups if the calcium levels are under 1.3%.
 

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Call me cynical, and I seem to be getting more and more cynical with age, but any company that provides an alternative, more expensive, breed/age specific food, is hardly going to say, just feed them the *normal* stuff, it's ok. Processed foods are absorbed at a much less efficient rate than natural foods in any case, the very small difference in percentages they quote - and they can't guarantee those percentages are *exactly* at that level in any case - just isn't something that would worry me, personally.

My job involves covering my @ss, so I can fully understand that no representative from any company that provides a product aimed towards a specific target area, isn't going to say they have an all round product, why would they? Anyway, as I said, I feed raw, which is just as controversial, many vets are completely set against it, and of course the natural calcium levels are going to be quite high for some meals, and less for others, but all of my girls have done well on it, and if it affects joint development someone forgot to tell Tau.
 

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My toy poodle has always been on royal canin since weaning she is two years old now has never had even a runny tum. My gsd pup was on A another top of the range puppy food ended up with bloody muucus poos put her on royal canin gsd puppy and it all cleared up wiithin a few days"
Please dont knock the quality of food just because you dont like the ingredients that has nothing to do with quality.
Chicken meal actually has mre protein than chicken which has a high water content. If what you feeding suits your dog feed it dont change,
 

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It's not *just* the meat ingredients, it's the quantity of grains they put in there, and that they have had in the past, I think they took it out, preservatives that were known carcinogens, BHA and BHT. It scores very low on any comparison website. "

ROYAL CANIN (small breed, poultry)

Price (8kg): £30.99
Suggested daily amount: 250g
Daily feeding cost: 96p

Ingredients: Rice, dehydrated poultry meat, maize flour, animal fats, vegetable protein, maize, maize gluten, hydrolysed animal proteins, vegetable fibres, beet pulp, minerals, vegetable oil, fish oil, yeast, fructo-oligo-saccharides, sodium polyphosphate, hydrolysed yeast extract, green tea and grape extracts, Dl-methionine, egg powder, hydrolysed crustaceans, L-tyrosine, L-carnitine, hydrolysed cartilage."

Just as an example, this scores *red* on this comparison which equates to: "Red – these foods are the ones that I feel are extremely poor, and that should be avoided. They tend to have either an inadequate meat content, too many cheap fillers, artificial additives, harmful chemicals, added sugar – or a mixture of all of those!"

That's a simple comparison on another forum, with green, amber and red indicating the quality of dry foods.

*If* your dog does well on it, fair enough, but there's no harm in knowing what you're buying. There are plenty of people who probably live to a ripe old age never eating fresh fruit and vegetables, and subsisting on things like McDonalds. It wouldn't be my choice of diet for me, and for my dogs, if I fed them a kibble I would want to know the quality of the ingredients were good enough.
 

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This is very interesting..

What are opinions of Burns feed?

Buddy's on Burns puppy food and loves it, I haven't tried anything else because I see no need to, all is well with him and my pocket!

Also, he was 12 weeks old on Sunday and we have cut him down to 3 meals a day but increased the amount per feed, there has been no adverse reaction in his behaviour or his all encompassing desire to eat all and any food at any time of day!
 
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