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Discussion Starter #1
I note with interest the information sent out in the recent edition of the KC FT Newsletter in which it says that CC judges will now be required to attend an Open FT/Working Test and have a copy of the running order signed by the Secretary. This will form part of the criteria for judges awarding CC's for the first time.

The note is information to Secretaries whose clubs put on these events as they may be contacted from prospective judges wishing to attend.

A real positive step and one of the Kennel Club's better idea as I should think there are a fair few judges who have never seen a dog work.
 

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There is no real reason why they should Mo. A show judge, amongst other things, should he looking at the suitability to do the job they were bred for. A field trials judge on the other hand is simply judging the dog's ability and looks dont come into it.

But another question is, should working dogs need to pass a conformation test to become FT Ch's in the same way that show dogs need to qualify at working to graduate from SH Ch to CH?

Regards, John
 

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I'm sure that there is a post on here about it somewhere, but I can't find it, so could someone kindly tell me, how do show dogs qualify at working to graduate from SH Ch to CH? What level of 'working ability' has to be demonstrated? And have many dogs achieved this?

From my ignorant point of view, I think that it's a wonderful idea that CC judges should see the breed at work. What's been the response from the judges? Are they embracing it? Is this part of the 'fit for purpose' ideal of the KC? And will it apply to other breeds over time? And if so, what about the breeds bred for 'fighting'? 8O

Becs and The Gang
 

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JohnW said:
But another question is, should working dogs need to pass a conformation test to become FT Ch's in the same way that show dogs need to qualify at working to graduate from SH Ch to CH?
Yes, that's what I meant, sort of..... so the likes of flappy turny out feet, odd looking tails, funny gait and so on would be picked up on and might make the difference between one working dog being made up and the next one not? Now, there may be no FTChs out there with flappy feet who run like a sack of spuds (a fast sack of spuds at that mind :wink:), but you know what I mean (hopefully!)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Becs.

A show champion is required to demonstrate the following to obtain a Show Gundog Working Certificate. Once passed a Sh Ch can be classed as a Champion.

The granting of a Show Gundog Working Certificate will be at the
discretion of the Judges at the meeting, and two Judges, one of
whom must be an “A” Panel Judge, must sign the Certificate.
Before doing so they must be satisfied that the dog has fulfilled the
following requirements:-
(a) The dog has been tested in line.
(b) The dog has shown that it is not gun-shy.
(c) For a Retriever, that it hunted for, and found, dead or
wounded game, faced cover, and retrieved tenderly.
(d) For a Spaniel, that it hunted, faced cover, produced game
and retrieved tenderly.
(e) For a Pointer or Setter, that it hunted and pointed game.
(f) For a Hunt, Point and Retrieve Breed, that it hunted,
pointed game, and retrieved tenderly.
(g) For all retrieving breeds, that the dog entered water
freely, swam and retrieved (If a natural retrieve from water
is not possible, then a dummy may be used. If suitable
water is not available the dog is permitted to undertake a
special water test on a separate date at a separate
location recognised by the issue of a Certificate, to be
signed by two Field Trial Panel Judges one of whom must
be on the “A” Panel.
6
(h) The dog has not whined or barked in line. (Subject to the
Breed Standard)
(i) The dog has been under reasonable control. (Absolute
steadiness is not essential)

Certainly there have only been approx 6 full champions made up over the last couple of years, including my own Ch Winsleywood Waterloo JW ShCM.

There is also of course, the Working Gundog Certificate, which does not contribute to the full champion title and can be taken on Dummies or Game. Ch, Warringah's Bunya JW, Ch Carpenny Anchorman and Ch Winsleywood Waterloo JW ShCM have this award.
 

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If you go back 50 years, ago most big kennels both worked and showed. But now few do. So it’s only trying to get a bit of knowledge in which the old judges would have had anyway.

It was a wonderful achievement for Alison to make up Charlie, and you never know, if more people saw working dogs at work there might be more attempting to loose the Sh,

Regards, John
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks John - thats really kind :D Its a great achievement for anyone to get their SGWC. For those who dam it - last years test was no mean feat as it was a 100 bird drive at Ampton!!
 

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Thanks Alison, that was very interesting and obviously not the sort of level that anyone can achieve without putting in the hours and commitment.

Well done to Charlie and you! That's some achievement and it must be a great feeling to be one of such a select few dogs that have earned the title.

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Not at all reducing the brilliant achgievement of making a SH champion into a CH with a SGWC, but only to add some further info, that dogs can take their SGWC even if they are not Sh Ch's by qualifying in certain show classes to run in it, (used to be by any class win at a Championship show but is now a qualifying place in a qualifying class for Crufts at a championship show).

Completely right only a handful of dogs have made up to CH in the last few years, but only to add that probably four or five times that many have taken the SGWC and passed it in that time.

Some take it in the hope that one day they may make that dog up to a SH Ch and then, immediately be able to call it a CH because it holds the SGWC already. Some take it (like my own reason with the 6 dogs I have put it on from here) just to show that their show dogs do have basic working ability even though they know they are VERY unlikely ever to put a show champion title on them. So its there to take, becs, even if you don't think your showdog will ever gain its title.

Should anyone be interested I did post a few thoughts in the repeat thread in Dog Shows and Competitions regarding the CC judges attending working events, should anyone wish to comment on my comments ;-) I do like a good debate ;-)

Di
 
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