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Tank you Jazz and JonhW for your replies.

My vets also gave me a recipe for diazepam to Horus to give him if he had any other episodes. Now that Jazz told me that with Monty diazepan only seemed to may it worst it confirms my doubts about using it, I never did because fortunately he didn't have any more episodes since the last visit to the vet. My concern it's about medication, probably if it happened more frequently the vets all suggest epilepsy medication... witch right now I have my doubts, form what I read isn't proved to do anything good in this type of episodes. Correct me if i'm wrong please.
Well i'm going worried ahead of time because by now Horus is great and the episodes have months between. I'm just worried as any owner would be after witnessing the fear in Horus eyes during the episodes.
For now I can't find any trigger because those three episodes were in very different circumstances.

Thank you all I'll keep in touch give news from my Horus and to know news from you lovely labs.
 

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Yes - you can only use the private message facility if you have subscribed. And you get only five free posts before you would need to subscribe. I would be happy to correspond with you by email if that would be more convenient for you - but hope that you may decide to become a member of LF - it can be a mine of information :)

*Edited to say that two minutes after posting Monty had an episode! Thankfully it wasn't too severe and lasted about 10 mins
 

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Duvel got CECS too

Hi Guys,

I see this forum is a few years old now but our chocolate Labrador Duvel is experiencing the same thing (i think)

I looked at several videos of CECS on YouTube and Duvel matches up perfectly. I have many questions on how to deal with it.

If someone whose Labby has experienced the same could get in touch I would greatly appreciate it.

Email: [email protected]
 

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Hi Guys,

I see this forum is a few years old now but our chocolate Labrador Duvel is experiencing the same thing (i think)

I looked at several videos of CECS on YouTube and Duvel matches up perfectly. I have many questions on how to deal with it.

If someone whose Labby has experienced the same could get in touch I would greatly appreciate it.

Email: [email protected]
I am also new to the forum, Sorry to hear about Duvel, Our Choc Lab Blue is having the same episodes, he had his first one last year which they thought was Epilpesy and sent him for tests, MRI etc, the specialist explained it wasn't and was more than likely CECS, we were told to change Blues food to hypoallergenic and to try food that he hasn't had before, he is currently on Pork and Potato, which we thought had stopped the episodes until last night :( he had quite a bad one last night, very hard to watch he looks so scared.
would be grateful to chat to anyone who is in a similar situation.

Sarah
 

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Hi and welcome to both of you.

Yes, my George has the same thing as Monty. They happend maybe four times per year. June has quite a bit of info on this and did some research into George's lineage and found several dogs in common between George and Monty.

There has been research done by University of Minnesota in the US into Paroxysmal Dyskinesia (as it is known)
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/academic-departments/vbs/CanineGeneticsLab/PD/index.htm

But with George, all we do is try and get him to lie down (he is quite conscious throught the episode) and talk to him in a calming and reassuring manner.
 

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Sorry to hear about Blue's episodes - would be glad to have a chat. OK if I pm you a bit later today Sarah?

Hope George is doing OK Tim?
 

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As this is a very old thread - I thought maybe it's time for an update.

CECS in Border Terriers has now been identified as a gluten-sensitive movement disorder.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jvim.13643/epdf

There is no evidence at this time to suggest that PD in labradors is due to a problem with gluten.

The veterinary neurologists leading the Border Terrier research are currently researching paroxysmal dyskinesia in labradors and their initial study is due for publication soon.
 

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Interesting June. If you remember, right back at the start of CECS, before the name was coined and it was being called "Spikes Disease" after the Border Terrier of that name, people were talking about it in relation to diet. But at that time diet did not help all dogs. I think this will be found as another case of "All that glitters is not gold" and that there is more than one condition here which looks similar in the same way that years ago all collapsing Labradors were called Epileptic. We now know that there are numerous causes of collapsing Labradors and true epilepsy is only affecting a small number, others are suffering from such diseases as Exercise Induced collapse, Centronuclear Myopathy, Paroxysmal Dyskinesia and likely many other conditions not yet isolated.

John :)
 

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Indeed John - and no doubt you will recall that presentation given to the Border Terrier Club of America back in 2004 - where neuro Scott Schatzberg mooted the theory of CECS, Chinook "Seizure", and Labrador Paroxysmal Dyskinesia possibly all being forms of dyskinesia - and therefore similar movement disorders. The whole issue of canine movement disorders has come to the fore over the past couple of years (and indeed was the theme of last year's European Veterinary Neurology conference) and an increasing number of breeds are being found to have movement disorders of one kind or another.(e.g Soft Coated Wheaten terriers, Jack Russells, Yorkshire terriers, Cairns, Scotties, Norwich Terriers, etc. to name just a few)
http://www.veterinair-neuroloog.nl/...oceedings-movement-disorders-congres-2015.pdf

And of course on your list of conditions causing collapse in labradors - another term you can add is "non-d-DNM1 EIC" as discussed by at the International Veterinary Epilepsy Taskforce conference

"For the Labrador Retriever EIC, predominantly caused by a DNM1-gene mutation, needs to be considered as potential differentials for epileptic seizures. Several studies suggest the existence of another and “DNM-1-independent” EIC condition in Labrador Retrievers, as some of the EIC-affected Labrador Retrievers are negative or heterozygous for the DNM1-gene mutation (approximately 15–30 % of EIC affected Labrador Retriever) [97], [98]. Hence, two distinct terms have gained acceptance for Labrador Retrievers: d-EIC (homozygous DNM1-gene mutation) and non-d-EIC (negative or heterozygous for the DNM1-gene mutation) [30], [97], [98]. Apart from a suspected diverse genetic background for the latter two EIC types, clinical differences between d-EIC and non-d-EIC have been observed."
 

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Hi all,
Ive just been reading through your thread and quickly learning more about what is affecting my 3yo yellow lab CHARLIE.
His first episode was maybe 18months ago and usually about a month apart, however sometimes closer together and sometimes even a few months pass without an episode.
His seizures are almost always brought on by sudden bursts of energy, usually from being asleep and jumping up to chase a bird or cat off the back deck, followed by a 2-5minute episode which has him cramp up and stumble around, usually grunting his disapproval. We're pretty good at just keeping him calm and still until it all passes and he's back to normal again. He never loses consciousness and the look in his eyes is of complete terror the poor thing.
This is especially worrying at night when we've in the past had a faulty smoke alarm go off and he wakes up with a start and this brings on a fit.

Spoke to our vet a while back and she said it was probably epilepsy but ive always doubted it.
Anyway fast forward to this week and he had an episode yesterday morning (we weren't sure what brought it on, but weren't exactly watching him before it happened), then this morning he chased some birds and 10mins after i had him calmed down and all was well he walked his way over to be (he knows when they're coming on) and had another fit which had him act as if he was falling, scrambling around and trying to regain balance.

Off to the vet, i was pretty shaken, he had settled down again by then so loaded him into the car.
Vet took some blood and sent it off for tests, she immediately thinks its epilepsy and wants to medicate him. I personally feel its not epilepsy and really don't to dose him up with meds. I think that maybe epilepsy is an easy solution for her and is a "cover all" diagnosis.
Ive read that maybe a dietary solution might help?
I'd love to talk more and hear about other peoples experiences my email is [email protected]
thanks in advance.
 

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My 7yr old yellow has had these fits since avout 1.5yrs. Spent £1500 originally on tests, no result, went on youtube saw loads of labs with same problem.

So now he and I just live with the fits and he doesnt seem to be getting any worse, or more frequent although one day he had 2 in quick succession, but then nothing for months, so my advice is just ignore them, dont drug your dog up, the vets have no idea how to treat this although as tou now know, its very common.
 

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So now he and I just live with the fits and he doesnt seem to be getting any worse, or more frequent although one day he had 2 in quick succession, but then nothing for months, so my advice is just ignore them, dont drug your dog up, the vets have no idea how to treat this although as tou now know, its very common.
I must suggest people be very careful about following this advice! Firstly there are so many similar conditions which present very similar appearance. EIC and Atypical EIC, various forms of Epilepsy, Centronuclear Myopathy and PD to name just 5. Jazz on here and myself have been studying these for probably around 10 years. there is now a DNA test for EIC and CNM, and a laboratory in Switzerland is working on a DNA test for one form of Epilepsy. As I said on an earlier post on this thread, there is a certain amount of reason to believe that PD and CECS may well be the same thing, or at least "Different horse, same stable." Prof. Ned Patterson did a lot of the early work on CECS and the canine neurologist Laurent Garosi, and Mark Lowrie are working on these conditions at the moment. But until the genetics are known there is not going to be a definitive answer.

Regards, John
 

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CECS is incredibly common in labradors, far more so than EIC and CNM and anyway CNM is a completely different thing altogether! CNM is a progressive disease, whereas dogs which have CECS are unaffected by it outwith their episodes. Given that 'atypical EIC' isn't actually EIC (it can't be if it's not DNM1 related!), maybe it's CECS? CECS is also notably different to epilepsy (although very often people, including vets, assume that 'fits' = 'epilepsy' :( ).

The majority of labradors suffer episodes on waking suddenly, although I have seen one happen out training - apparently after having been fed a gluten-heavy food the day before. I doubt feeding a gluten-free diet will always completely eradicate it but it certainly seems to help.

The best form of treatment DOES seem to be owner-management - don't panic (if you panic the dog panics!), and try a gluten-free food. Vets don't generally know about it and I'm sure there are dogs out there which are being medicated for epilepsy but which have CECS!

As an aside, I have come across a large number of labradors afflicted with CECS - far more than I have ever come across with any other labrador problem. I used to think it had a recessive genetic basis but now I'm more inclined to doubt that as I've heard of dogs with it which are complete outcrosses, including crossbreeds; that just makes it so unlikely to be a straightforward recessive gene!
 

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I know this thread is old but am I grateful I found it. I was so worried. I have a 8 year old chocolate lab who had his first episode in January. He has had about 6 since then. Videos and what everyone has said on here is exactly what Brutus is going through. Its heartbreaking to watch. Ive noticed also when he's had these episodes that he gets extremely hot. If there is anything new that anyone finds out please update. I am going to switch Brutus to gluten free food see if that helps.
 

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Sorry to hear that Brutus has been having these episodes. You are right in saying that they can be very distressing to watch. Hope it's OK that I get back to you via email - then we can have a chat
 

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Good morning, I wonder if anyone could help me and my almost three year old chocolate Labrador Reggie. I posted a new thread thinking I couldn’t add to this one. So my apologies. I also appreciate this is a very old thread, but i’m Keen to get some advice if possible. I’ll try and start from the beginning. After researching considerably in to buying a Labrador with a complete DNA check and health check (we had an awful experience with “bad breeding” and our previous lab) we ended up with our rather crazy boy. He had been perfect up until around a year ago, when one day out of the blue he started to stumble around after chasing a squirrel. It was almost like every muscle in his body had stiffened and he couldn’t effectively move without falling over. I immediately took him to the vets who after a few blood tests told me that it was likely to be EIC. Nothing could be done about it and unless the condition worsened, he would just learn to live with it. They then asked me to record an episode when and if it happened again. I questioned this, as his DNA test stated that dad was clear of the EIC gene and mum was a carrier. My understanding was that he was not able to inherit this condition. They informed me that it’s most likely a mutated version. (Typical in our house, nothing is ever straightforward!) Anyway fast forward to the last month. This has happened at least four or five times. It’s USUALLY when he jumps to chase squirrels, but sometimes it’s completely out of the blue. They last around 2-3 minutes, he is completely lucid throughout, I get him to lie down and then once it’s over, he jumps up like nothing has happened. He is obviously distressed while it is happening, but as long as I am near, he’s ok. Additionally, he seems to know that they are going to happen. He bolts towards me and my husband about a minute or so before the “episode” and doesn’t leave our side. I have seen EIC collapses on various different internet sites, and it doen’t look like our Reg. I have since scoured the internet and found this site. This is what prompted me to join and post. The videos of Monty are exactly like Reggie and I wondered if anyone had any advice at all? He is otherwise a very happy and active dog. I’m just starting to worry as they seem to be happening more frequently. I have an appointment with the vet again on Monday and will show them the video of Reggie that I have. I’m just wondering if anyone could give me some more information on here. I’m sorry for such a long post. Reg is my buddy, I just want to make sure he’s going to be ok! Thanks for your time.
 

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Right since day one of the DNA test for EIC we have said there is something wrong. There have been DNA affected dogs who don't collapse, and collapsing carriers. The test was the work of Dr Susan Taylor, ably assisted by Katy Minor, at the University of Minnesota, working as part of Dr (Professor I believe) Ned Patterson's team.

Is there something wrong with the test??? Don't know. But in the olden days, if a dog collapsed it was said to be suffering from Epilepsy. But then the gene for CNM was found so we then had two possibilities to blame. Then later still the gene for Exercise Induced Collapse was found, (Bad name because it is more about excitement induced collapse.) and then we had three. CECS reared it's head, and as there were differences between this and normal Grand Mal Epilepsy it was taken as a fourth condition, tending to affect mainly Border Terriers and Labradors. Popular opinion amongst some geneticists now is that CECS does not exist, and that what we are seeing is actually none other that EIC. But the important thing is, how many other different collapsing syndromes are there? We only have DNA tests for 2. (CNM and EIC)

Take a different condition altogether, Progressive Retinal Atrophy in eyes. When I started in dogs it was easy, if a dog got PRA it had PRA, end of statement! But over the years it has been found that different breeds have different forms of PRA and there are now different DNA tests for something like 8 different variants of PRA, and I know for a fact that other that the usual form there are one at least and possibly two other different forms affecting Labradors, because those dogs have been DNA tested clear for the usual form affecting Labradors, and one, earlier this year, was tested by Optigen for every different form of PRA for which it had a test for, and it proved to be clear of everything. Yet it's going blind, undoubtedly with some form of as yet unidentified PRA.

What I'm saying is that I firmly believe that we have not got to the bottom of dogs collapsing yet. That there are other forms of collapsing not yet identified. As with PRA, we know the most common problem, but there are other rarer forms which we know nothing about. And I think it likely that your dog was unlucky enough to have this form. Sadly there is nothing that can be done to avoid it. If your breeder tested and made sure that one side was clear, then the pups could be no worse than carriers so because it is a recessive condition no pup could ever develop the problem. The dog might LOOK as if it has EIC, when it collapses, but it cannot be that, so it must be something genetically different. You could say, "Same horse, different stable"

Regards, John
 

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Hi,
Thank you so much for your reply. I’m just really sad to see him going through it. The breeder definitely had genetic testing as I explained earlier. I have all of the paperwork. This would then mean that the vet is right about the as yet unidentified mutation? I’m questioning myself more than anything, to work out if it’s worth continuing to chase this up? Do I just deal with the episodes with him? It’s so random, especially as this can also happen when he is not squirrel chasing.
I really wish I was able to post a video on here, just so that everyone can see what happens! Bless him. I may have a chat with the vet next week and get a clearer picture. Once again, thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it.
Helen
 

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Quite frankly, I don't see anything you can do. There is no cure for EIC, although many dogs grow out of it as they get older. (Do they really grow out of it, or do they just get steadier and calmer so never reach the trigger point?? That would be my guess.) Some people have said that diet can help, others have said they find no difference. (Does this point to different variations?? Who knows.) All in all, we know no more about it than we knew 10 years ago. Probably less when you take that 10 years ago we THOUGHT we knew all about it!
 
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