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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Gillie’s sire
Dual French Champion Carromer’s Charlie Chalk
Fr Ch, Fr FT Ch (English style), International champion, Sh Ch GB, Sh Ch USA, Swiss Ch, Belgian Ch, Lux Ch, Trialer
World Winner

He was a Fr Ch 7 times over
He had 96 CACIB in the days where there were 300+ lab entries

There’s not been a Fr Ch and Fr FT Ch (English style) champion since and he was British bred.

I’m sad I never met him in the flesh,
Dog Plant Carnivore Dog breed Fawn

Sky Dog Cloud Dog breed Carnivore
 

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Charlie Chalk was relater to my Beth through his Heatherborne line. The photo below.

In fact there has only ever been 10 dual Champions in the UK. Interestingly almost half were owned by the same person!

Banchory Bolo, born 29/12/1915
Banchory Sunspeck, born 4/5/1917
Titus of Whitmore, born 4/3/1919
Flute of Flodden, born 19/2/1922
Bramshaw Bob of Banchory, born 11/12/1929
Banchory Painter, born 1/6/1930
Lochar Nessie, born 10/5/1933
Staindrop Saighdear, born 22/4/1944
Rockstead Footspark, born 26/6/1945
Knaith Banjo, born 29/3/1946

And there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there will never be another dual champion in the UK. Two reasons. Firstly, with the advent of the hobby show people so few people actually show AND work their dogs, at least to a competitive standard, as born out by the lack of full champions. (Just one in 2019!!!) And even that would not be of the standard required to ever become a FT CH. Secondly Field trials has moved along to such a high competitive standard than nothing other than a specialised dog stands a hope of achieving the standard required to become a FT CH, and such a dog would be way too athletic to win in the show ring. Competition, either field or bench is just too specialised today.

Dog Carnivore Working animal Plant Collar
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It’s much the same here too though dogs still have to actually complete in field trials to a certain standard in order to become a French national champion (we don’t have a show champion title). In order to compete in field trials they have to pass several tough tests. FCI rules say even to become an international beauty champion a Labrador must compete in field trials. The French national Ch title is one of the hardest to get…the equivalent of 6 CC, one of those must be at either the French national show (once a year) or the breed club show (once a year), one must be at a breed special show. Plus the need to complete in and qualify for a field trial. Okay there may be fewer entries in shows but unless the dog gets a first place and graded excellent it won’t get anywhere. We also have judges that also do field trial judging in beauty shows. There isn’t such a big difference here, conformation wise, as there is elsewhere.


Charlie was the last French dual champion. Nowadays they have the title Beau et Bon where a dog accumulates points in both disciplines to get the Beau et Bon title.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It’s quite possible for a FT dog to win in the show ring with judicial feeding and the right type of exercise providing it has correct conformation. I’ve friends in the USA who breed a very much dual purpose type lab, along the lines of Janice Pritchard. They achieve their hunting titles in hard form then move on to the show ring. Take a look at Kerrybrook in the USA.
 
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After Janice Pritchard died Kate Smith took on Charway Summerrain. I had the honour of showing her in the Gamekeepers ring at Crufts. Summer was the result of a collaboration between Janice and Kate to breed a dual purpose Labrador.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I loved the dogs Janice produced. Huge loss to the breed.
 

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It’s quite possible for a FT dog to win in the show ring with judicial feeding and the right type of exercise providing it has correct conformation. I’ve friends in the USA who breed a very much dual purpose type lab, along the lines of Janice Pritchard. They achieve their hunting titles in hard form then move on to the show ring. Take a look at Kerrybrook in the USA.
What do you mean by judicial feeding? Surely if a dog is fit for function it's fit enough to work and the right shape for the show ring? Feeding can't alter shape??
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Not something I know a lot about but I’m in a US Dual Purpose group and this is what one of the breeders is trying with his master hunters. The dogs have to have the correct conformation to start with. A question of sculpting apparently. Not necessarily more food but different levels of protein and different types of exercise.
 
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FT is far to specialised now in the UK Nicola for it to ever work here. Also top FT handlers would never ruin their chances of qualifying for the IGL Retriever Championship to try. It's a far too professional sport.
 

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Not something I know a lot about but I’m in a US Dual Purpose group and this is what one of the breeders is trying with his master hunters. The dogs have to have the correct conformation to start with. A question of sculpting apparently. Not necessarily more food but different levels of protein and different types of exercise.
Ah right, I get what you mean now, although I have heard of people who show their dogs and work them, pile the weight on for show season after the shooting season, which I just think is wrong.

I've only seen a couple of field trials and I have to say it's incredibly impressive, way beyond most of what I'd be asking of my dogs out on a shoot working them. The level of steadiness and taking directions/commands is incredible. I think trialling both in Europe and the US is different to the UK, it's even becoming more different than a walked up shoot to some extent in that the degree of difficulty is greater and obedience must be absolute, and then of course handling has to be spot on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I’d never feed mine to pile on weight. It’d never win in France.

I’m enjoying my working training with Gillie. She has so much natural aptitude that needs Channeling. We will definitely try for the first test, a test of natural aptitude. She’s not been overly Keen on carrying tennis balls in training but will go to pick them up and will go to memory retrieves and to the correct vicinity in blinds. She’s not even 6 months old so I’m need to moderate my expectations. She’ll carry stuff around the garden at home all day. 🤣🤣
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Direction commands we do in our obedience classes and a sendaway and redirection. Gillie is doing that already at under 6 months old.
 

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Be careful not to go too fast. For example, I never do a retrieve from the point the adult teeth start to come through at around 12 weeks, until teething is finished at around 6 months. If the pup happens to knock a loose tooth and hurt herself it might easily put her off the idea, so it's not worth the risk. I'm working to a relatively relaxed timetable of having my pup ready to go our in the field picking up at around 18 months depending on when she was born in relation to the shooting season. So there is no rush. I know some people push their pups a lot harder and have them in the field by a year old, but I dont see the need.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sendaway is something we do in our basic obedience. Retrieving out of the garden we only do what she’s keen to do, I don’t push it. I noticed the difference when she was teething…she is no longer teething but is missing PM1 on the lower jaw, which is disappointing. She’ll be 6 months old on 21 May. I’m happy she’s got natural ability but in the meantime we’ve been working on swimming, starting with a still lake and more recently the river Garonne and a current.
 

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I use a stream here for swimming. It's shallow enough to just paddle, but it's dammed up at one point and above the tumbles it's quite deep, so I just get gradually nearer until the pup has to swim. This was Anna swimming there.


Water Water resources Beak Lake Waterfowl


Water Dog Carnivore Plant Dog breed
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Swimming progress
 

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I do very little retrieve training at all, I just encourage a 'hold' so they know bringing anything to me is good. I stick to the basics and then build on those when they're old enough. Rhuna, my flat coated retriever was always a swot at training and working, I still remember a particular hen pheasant she found after the gun had told me he'd pricked her and she landed some distance behind him. Unseen, she'd gone down a stream bed and tucked herself up into some brambles, the gun was adamant she'd run alongside the stream, as that was where he'd last seen her running. After sending Rhuna twice and recalling her as she kept going into the stream, I let her have her head and off she went, got to the massive mound of brambles, pointed, wagged furiously and BANG, pulled the hen pheasant straight out. The gun (and me) were amazed at her natural ability. This is Rhuna doing a memory retrieve over approx 1/4 of a a kilometre.

Rhuna, memory retrieve
 
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