[brown2000]

Hello all

I have a 13 week old bitch and, as the subject title says, I really am at my wits end with house training. I understand that they take time (we are not first time dog owners; we have had three other dogs previously) but we are making absolutely NO progress and I am at the end of my tether. We have had her since she was 8 weeks, so roughly 5 weeks now.

We have had a grand total of two dry nights over the last 5 weeks. Someone suggested to me to reduce the size of the crate so that their bed takes up the whole space, the idea being that they won't want to toilet on their bed. Well, I tried this last night and woke up in the morning to a bed, crate and dog that were caking in diarhrea type poo. She was covered in it, had got it all over the bars of the crate and then trod it all over my floor. She also jumped up at me and got it all over my clothes. I was literally in tears. I would be more forgiving if this was an occasional occurence but it happens almost daily. I dread going down in the mornings to know that I have to bath the dog, wash the beds, wash all my clothing, hose down the crate and wash the floors numerous times to get rid of the smell. This whole routine takes a good hour out of my morning.

We have tried various things to get her clean over night. I have tried staying up late (until 1am) and getting up at 6am. If I was lucky she would just wee when in there, but almost always I would wake up to a poo and the same situation as above. I have also tried going to bed at my regular time (11pm) and getting up at 2-3am to let her out. Often she would wee and poo in that space of time and I would have to carry out the same routine as above at 3am, as obviously I could not leave her in a crate full of poo. On the times I got up at 2-3am and she did NOT poo in there, I would take her own only for her fall back asleep outside on the ground. She would then poo again in the crate between 3am and 6am.

I take water up at 7pm and her last meal is at 5pm. I moved it forward as I thought it would help, but it has not helped the situation at all. I don't want to move it forward any more as I think 12 hours is a long time for a puppy to not have any food. She is fed 3 cup fulls of James Wellbeloved at 6am, 12pm and 5pm. No treats, just the dried food.

She also still poos and wees in the house if you take your eye off her for a few seconds. Even when I praise her for going outside and scold her for doing it indoors, she still doesn't 'get' it. She also jumps up repeated and barks constantly for attention. The neighbours have complained and the barking is extremely disruptive.

Due to this, I am not enjoying her at all and unfortunately am being to resent her. I know puppies are hard work but so far I have not felt at any point that I have enjoyed her company. With my previous dogs, I bonded to them straight away. I do not feel any type of connection with her.

Help, as I really feel like giving up and have considered giving her back to her breeder.

 

[Kendra]

I think there may be one of two issues here and I don't think it's a training problem as you sound as if you're doing everything right!

Firstly, not all dogs get on with all foods. Your Lab may be intolerant to James Wellbeloved even though it's a "good" food and may require swapping to something else. Does she have runny poo in the daytime as well?

Secondly, get an opinion from your vet. There is a nasty thing known as Giardia (sp!) which can cause all manner of issues in the tummy. Has she been wormed recently as that could also be a cause of runny poo and overnight "incontinence" (I use the word lightly as she's still only a wee pup!). _Den_ had problems with her pup Chester and it turned out to be a vitamin B12 deficiency. So, if she's not been seen by the vet in the past few weeks, then I'd make that a priority. He may also be able to suggest a suitable food to change to.

Good luck

 

[Kendra]

Also, don't scold her for going indoors. I know it's tempting to, but clear it up with no fuss, using a weak biological washing powder solution (other cleaners smell like wee and make the dog think it's ok to go inside). When she does go outside, praise her like she's just peed/pooed gold nuggets and give her a special, toilet only treat (a small sliver of cheese is a good one ).

Take her outside every hour during the day for toilet duties and use a command just for that

 

[Carley]

I would also be worried if her poos are consistantly runny. I would try changing food (puppy food is very rich and often they do better on junior or adult) or checking her out with the vet.

Some pups catch on really quick and others take time. I mean she still is a baby and often they just can't hold it. My last lab was dry by 10 weeks but Wicca took 6 months. You just have to understand that they are not doing this on purpose, just answering the call of nature!

 

[_Melanie_]

Oh I really sympathise with you and your current situation, but don't despair. I can't add anything more than the others have said, but I would definitely take her to the Vet to have her checked over. We had our first pup on James Wellbeloved, then on to Arden Grange, which all made her rather runny and VERY smelly. She is now on Skinners along with our new pup, which seems to work well.
We feed our little 9 week old girl at 7am, 1pm and 6.30pm, which seems to work well.

I wish you all the best of luck and please don't get too down about it all, although I can totally understand. We are all here for a good moan if you feel like it. You will probably find that once you crack it with your new pup she will turn out to be the best dog you have ever owned...

 

[...]

Some pups catch on really quick and others take time.

I couldn't agree more. I've had one clean and dry day and night from 7 weeks old and another who was still having accidents (and some of those in her crate) at 12 MONTHS. It certainly isn't unusual for the penny not to have dropped much before 6 months old, so you still have a way to go yet before you need worry about her being "abnormal".

As others have said, try changing her food, as no one food suits ALL dogs and if it doesn't suit then you will get Botty Trouble. :wink:

She also jumps up repeated and barks constantly for attention.

This is pretty much just puppy attention seeking behaviour. Your best bet is to turn your back and ignore her, as any negative attention (ie telling off) is still attention to her. Don't forget to praise her to the hilt when she is quiet and calm too, as pups need to know when they are getting things right as well as wrong.

I am not enjoying her at all and unfortunately am being to resent her.

I felt the same about my black Lab Mojo because until she was about 14 weeks old she screamed day and night and I was having very little sleep (she wasn't clean overnight either then). I honestly felt I had made a huge mistake buying her, yet within another couple of months she rapidly became the BEST dog in the World .... A dog I can't bear to be away from for more than a few hours. Once we got training together we gelled and we've been glued together ever since.

 

[Kendra]

Jules is right, as is Carley that all dogs are different - I suggested the vet just to make doubly trebly sure it's not something medical which is causing the issue, then you can look at alternatives

 

[brown2000]

Thanks for all the advice. Perhaps I will take a poo sample along to the vets, as she is often very loose. I mean, I would have no trouble clearning up a 'normal' poo from the crate every morning, but it is always loose and smeared all over her, her bed, her crate, etc. It is so time consuming and frustrating.

I do feel very gulity about having thoughts about taking her back to her breeder, but on the other hand I just think how much easier life would be without her. I am not a morning person at the best of times, so waking up at all hours of the night to the smell of poo and a puppy that has got it absolutely everywhere is draining. I also don't get a chance to do anything now as she cannot be left for longer then an hour without kicking up a fuss. Even if I am in the house and shut the door behind me, she will be hysterical throwing herself against the door and doing a high pitched bark. Leaving her alone in the garden (which would be nice for short periods, as it is totally secure) is a no go as she will again just bark and throw herself at the door. I have to accompany her every time, which again gets tiresome.

She is my first bitch. I have always had dogs and only now realise that I prefer the temperament of dogs to bitches. My pup is very aloof and she doesn't appear to be interested in pleasing me at all. I think if she was affectionate and had a more loving temperament I would feel better about the situation, but she does not.

 

[_Melanie_]

I have two bitches and Skylar is the most loving and affectionate dog ever. I must admit that when we first got her she was a bit aloof but this soon changed.

You sound very down. I sympathise with the mornings as I too am not a morning person and was quite down myself the other day with getting up early for pup. I would be even worse if I had to clear up her mess too.

Have you thought of getting in an expert for some advice? Your local puppy class probably offers this. We did this for Sky and the trainer who took us for classes came to our house for two hours, and it was very reasonable indeed. He gave us lots of advice. This could help you and give you some much needed solutions. Especially seeing what your pup is like in your own home. Just a thought.

Please don't despair.

 

[-Angela-]

It can't be much fun for you having to wipe her and the crate clean each day - but as said, she's not doing it on purpose to annoy you. My boys, who are both adult dogs, went through a very upset tummy bug early last year and no matter when I let them out, they were having accidents during the night, there was much washing of towels and floors and my sleep was broken for days, but they were poorly and I felt terribly sorry for them.

Perhaps your girl has picked up a bug? I think the suggestions to have her vet checked for her upset tummy and look at her diet are good ones.

She is my first bitch. I have always had dogs and only now realise that I prefer the temperament of dogs to bitches. My pup is very aloof and she doesn't appear to be interested in pleasing me at all. I think if she was affectionate and had a more loving temperament I would feel better about the situation, but she does not.

I don't think that's to do with her being a bitch, dogs are individuals and my youngest, a bitch, is certainly not aloof. She's extremely affectionate and we have a very close bond - and I have male and female dogs.

I would imagine once things improve in the toileting stakes and she gets older, that you will bond with her more. If you are feeling as frustrated as you sound, she may well be picking up on that too.

Hope things start improving for you both soon :flower:

 

[Basil]

Hi, I've had a pup who toileted in her crate repeatedly, she would poo before bed, then at least twice more in her crate on top of a middle of the night toilet break - asides the toiletting is your pup settling ok in her crate?

One thing not mentioned is that loose stools can often be linked with overfeeding - what does your pup weigh and how many grammes a day are you feeding of the JWB?

The only other thing I can suggest, for your sanity, as you sound close to breaking is to re-think her crate situation. I tried a pen attached to the crate (so crate door open and then a pen area attached, so still enclosed but roomier). I did this part for toiletting and part as my pup hated the crate.
As she clearly has no problem soiling her bed and I'm guessing isn't even distressed enough to 'call' you about it you may as well give her some space to go, a little newspaper. It's not the modern method of toilet training but frankly not all pups are the same. When she's a little older she should still learn to hold overnight but until then you'll have less cleaning to do of pup, crate bars, bedding etc.....I remember how it gets everywhere when you have a pup that doesn't care!

 

[Lyndaloo]

If your pup gets distressed behind a closed door, have you thought about trying a baby gate? You can then keep her in a particular room while she's still able to see you. Try and distract her by giving her something to amuse her while you're not with her, a Kong for instance, or a frozen carrot. Be careful what you put in the Kong though as you don't want to upset her tummy anymore than it appears to be at the moment.

I agree with the advice to get her checked out by the vet, also consider the type and amount of food you're giving her.

She's still really a baby and no matter how disheartening it is to come down to such a mess each morning, it will get better eventually. I had problems with Martha peeing and pooing in her crate until a much later age than any of my other Labs. She's almost 19 weeks now and I think we've finally got it cracked - dashes off to touch LOTS of wood.

Stick with it, she'll reward you a million times over, eventually, with the love and affection she'll give you.

 

[angi]

Hi we had the same problem with Solly....the cleaning of dog,crate,bedding etc was awful.Decided I'd rather clean the floor so we decrated...the vet suggested food may be the problem so started the process of changing from JW ..... now at 4 1/2 months we do have ' accidents' but they are nearly always on the tiled kitchen floor......soooo much easier to clean up .....and still very loose occasionally .....ie when he's eaten a ton of windfall damsons :lol: :lol: .Also got a gate for the kitchen door so he goes in there when I go out .Works really well.I know it's really hard for you now but hope you feel able to hang on in there as you will be repaid a thousand fold by the sheer joy they bring to your life.