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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi all,

I've got my eyes on 2 sisters from the same litter. Details from KC (UK) show the following details about parents...

1 - Litter Born 5th April 2022 -

Sire Dog Colour YELLOW - Born 18 February 2020
CNM, SD2, prcd-PRA, EIC - Clear (Test performed 18 Feb 2020)
BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Scheme - Unaffected;
BVA/KC Hip Dysplasia L:3, R:2
Elbow Dysplasia 0 - Tested 16 June 2021 - Aged 1yr 3m,
COL = 8.2%,
EBA Elbow -18 & EBA Hip -55 (Confidence 65 & 71%)


Dam Bitch Colour YELLOW Born 10 April 2017
CNM, SD2, prcd-PRA, EIC - Clear (Test performed 18 Feb 2020)
BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Scheme - Unaffected;
BVA/KC Hip Dysplasia L:4, R:5
Elbow Dysplasia 0 - Tested 16 June 2021 - Aged 1yr 3m,
COL = 11.1%,
EBA Elbow -30 & EBA Hip -21 (Confidence 71 & 76%)

2 - Litter Born 23rd March 2022

Sire
Dog Colour YELLOW - Born 27 March 2013
COL = 5.0%,
EBA Elbow -10 & EBA Hip 4 - (Conf 31 & 41%)

Dam Bitch ColourY ELLOW Born 27 December 2019
COL = 6.6%,
Elbow - Score: N/A, EBV: 4, Confidence: 35%
Hip - Score: N/A, EBV: 9, Confidence: 40%

Of the two which appears to be a better bet of the two litters? Anything jumping out?

Really don't want to get this wrong.
Thanks
M
 

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Litter 1/ DNA tested for all the major health problems on both side. Litter 2/ has no DNA tests.

Litter 1/ BVA eye tested clear on both sides. Litter 2/ Untested

Litter 1/ Acceptable hip and elbow scores on both sides litter 2/ Untested

Litter 1/ coefficient of inbreeding slightly on the higher end, but not badly so. litter 2/ Slightly better but looking at the pedigrees I can guess why.

Litter 1/ Estimated Breed Value is very good (Minus is better than average where a plus figure is worse. litter 2/ Not so good (mostly positive numbers.)


Ok, a few thoughts for you. But at the end of the day it’s what you like, and also what you intend to do with the pups. Both litters are basically working Labradors, so is that what you want? Litter 1 has top class working dogs right to the front, a beautiful pedigree, but could be a bit “Driven.” Can you cope with that? Litter 2 is again basically working bred. If you go back far enough there are some nice working dogs in there, but quite frankly, to me it looks as if it was bitches bred to convenient dogs. I may be wrong in that, but on the face of it thats how it appears to me, and it tends to be born out by the apparent total lack of health testing. So there you are. If you are looking for a show type dog then neither is for you. If you are looking for a top class working dog then for me it is litter 1 all the way. But can you handle a rocket ship? I know many of the dogs in that pedigree, with training it’s likely a pup would be very good, but they are not for the faint hearted. Litter 2, unless there are health tests not recorded on the KC website, (and that is possible) would not be for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you so much for your responses - I really appreciate your thoughts.

So I've spend 30 years with dogs. My first was a Manchester Terrier and my last one was a Lab aged 13, called Emily.
She was quite boisterous, so I'm assuming a working dog here. I've attached her History, and oddly I cannot find Sweet Lucile.

She was absolutely beautiful and we adored her. The answer to your questions are that these two females will not be bred, show dogs or working dogs. They will be our loving pets with I hope lots of cuddles, love and walks.


Rectangle Font Parallel Circle Number


Would anyone know from looking at Emily's history if she came from working dogs or others?

I think we are likely to take litter 1.

Hugs all
Mik
 

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Thank you so much for your responses - I really appreciate your thoughts.

So I've spend 30 years with dogs. My first was a Manchester Terrier and my last one was a Lab aged 13, called Emily.
She was quite boisterous, so I'm assuming a working dog here. I've attached her History, and oddly I cannot find Sweet Lucile.

She was absolutely beautiful and we adored her. The answer to your questions are that these two females will not be bred, show dogs or working dogs. They will be our loving pets with I hope lots of cuddles, love and walks.


View attachment 27375

Would anyone know from looking at Emily's history if she came from working dogs or others?

I think we are likely to take litter 1.

Hugs all
Mik
Sweet Lucile doesn't exist on the KC database, although Baby Born does appear, she was born in July 2004 and had her first and only registered litter in September of 2005 when she was only 14 months of age, so would have been mated bang on 1 year of age, far too young I'm afraid for a litter. The stud dog is registered, but there are no dogs in there I recognise and he had no health tests on him registered with the UK KC. Unfortunately without the actual KC registration documentation (this is a printed version done by the breeder) you won't be able to confirm Emily's pedigree, but she was a loved companion and that will never change.

Boisterous does not equal working, high energy levels are one thing but how the dog is in themselves is completely different. I have show bred dogs that I train to do gundog stuff, and they are incredibly boisterous at times, but certainly don't have the same temperament of a working or trial bred Labrador. Although one of my current youngsters is pretty desperate to please, I've taken it very, very slowly with her to ensure I don't get it wrong, as I think, given a bit of time and maturity she will be quite good. Had she been working bred she'd probably be much farther along in training by now, I regularly see much younger dogs competing at working tests and field trials.
 

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She was a mix, a lot of Irish dogs in there which makes it difficult to trace her back. Sire was pretty much working on the sire's side once you get back 6 or 7 generations with such dogs as Raybank Asp and Glenbriar Stoney, FT Ch Swinbrook Tan and FT Ch Meadowbrae Widgeon.
On the Dam's side she was more from show stock with Sandylands My Rainbeau, Sandylands Mark, Tyton Mistress Isidore and Jimjoy Chocolate Jewel.

A word of warning, litter 1/ is likely to be much more driven that Emily.
 

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She was a mix, a lot of Irish dogs in there which makes it difficult to trace her back. Sire was pretty much working on the sire's side once you get back 6 or 7 generations with such dogs as Raybank Asp and Glenbriar Stoney, FT Ch Swinbrook Tan and FT Ch Meadowbrae Widgeon.
On the Dam's side she was more from show stock with Sandylands My Rainbeau, Sandylands Mark, Tyton Mistress Isidore and Jimjoy Chocolate Jewel.

A word of warning, litter 1/ is likely to be much more driven that Emily.
Is the Dam on the IKC database then John?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
This is Emily, she was absolutely stunning and beautiful, awesome temperament but not keen on cuddles. Notice how she has a 'curly' tail, which we loved, it was always pointing up when she was asleep, so we knew she was happy. Also she never barked which was perfect for us. (that's a lab thing right?) (also she seemed small for a lab?)


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Given her history and temperament, what kind of matching do I need to be looking at? Show dog or Working? I'm not trying to replace Emily, she was one in a million, but I loved the prettiness and kindness she had, so whatever her mix was, I'd like to get two in similar beauty and temperament.

Sorry for the long post, I'm scared of making the wrong choice.

Thanks all, you are really all helping me.
 

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If litter 1 is as John describes, would you really be wanting 2 and would the breeder actually let you take 2. I think that could prove to be a challenge (I have 5, 3 under age 4) and they’ve been hard work! I couldn’t begin to imagine having litter mates with a real working drive behind them.

Given their date of birth, I’d imagine they’ve gone to their new families by now.
 

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This is Emily, she was absolutely stunning and beautiful, awesome temperament but not keen on cuddles. Notice how she has a 'curly' tail, which we loved, it was always pointing up when she was asleep, so we knew she was happy. Also she never barked which was perfect for us. (that's a lab thing right?) (also she seemed small for a lab?)

Given her history and temperament, what kind of matching do I need to be looking at? Show dog or Working? I'm not trying to replace Emily, she was one in a million, but I loved the prettiness and kindness she had, so whatever her mix was, I'd like to get two in similar beauty and temperament.

Sorry for the long post, I'm scared of making the wrong choice.

Thanks all, you are really all helping me.
She looks more show bred than working bred although John has said there are working lines behind her. Have you had a look on Champdogs? Often times, one of the best ways to find a litter is if you know of it before it's planned. So, if you find a stud dog you like the look of, if you contact the owner ask them if they'd mind passing your details on to the owners of any suitable visiting bitches, and give them a bit of information about the sort of home you'd be able to give them.

If litter 1 is as John describes, would you really be wanting 2 and would the breeder actually let you take 2. I think that could prove to be a challenge (I have 5, 3 under age 4) and they’ve been hard work! I couldn’t begin to imagine having litter mates with a real working drive behind them.

Given their date of birth, I’d imagine they’ve gone to their new families by now.
I think it's between the two, not having both
 

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2 sisters from the same litter I read.

From the photos I would have said more show if I hadn’t seen what John had written.
 

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So Emily was a mix of both working and show?
It looks that way, there's definitely show lines behind the dam but quite far back.

Just to pick up on what Maddie has interpreted, if you are contemplating two litter sisters, I would seriously reconsider. I have five dogs currently, including three generations of Labradors, and I'm not mad enough to have two from the same litter. I am mad enough to be contemplating adding a sixth via a litter someone I know is having (not Labradors) but litter siblings are so much more hard work. And, to be quite honest, the vast majority of good breeders wouldn't let two litter sisters or siblings go to the same home for that very reason. If that's not what you're contemplating apologies for esssay.

2 sisters from the same litter I read.

From the photos I would have said more show if I hadn’t seen what John had written.
Ah right, maybe I've read it wrong then.

I picked up the grand sire's and grand dam's on the KC's database.
Baby Born? I think I saw that one, she must have been just 12 months old when mated for the one and only litter she had registered with the KC. I couldn't see the dam on there at all though.
 

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Sorry Maddie - am not sure what you mean
..2 sisters from the same litter I read...
This is what you wrote
I've got my eyes on 2 sisters from the same litter.
So you’re saying you aren’t interested in 2 bitch puppies from the same litter?
 

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Good luck, though I don’t really understand why you asked the question if you’ve already bought them. Seems very odd.

Have fun!
 
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