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Bones would Rain from the Sky

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#1 ·
If Carlsberg made dog books.... (sorry for the ....s! :p)

This might sound really geeky, but I wondered if anyone fancied a wee discussion thread about this book?

What did you think of it?
Has it made you do/view things differently? If so, what?
What were the top 3 things that stood out for you?

I'll start :lol:

Overall, I thought the book was very thought provoking. I think the author was skilled at getting her points across by hanging them on real examples or analogies. At times I thought it was a bit waffly, but on reflection, I think it might've been the examples that I already had a reasonable grasp of that I found to be so. Whereas, other parts of it weren't waffly to me at all probably because these were the parts where I personally needed more examples and explanations. I always like people and books that get me thinking and reflecting on my values and questioning whether I'm really walking the walk. This book certainly did that.

I'm prone to getting frustrated with the dogs and I know I need to work on that. This book really underlined that point for me. It was also quite enlightening to learn that when a dog is highly aroused it literally cannot hear you. Makes perfect sense, why didn't I think about that before? I learned a lot about dog 'possession' rules. No wonder Bracken was iffy about retrieving for a while, since in canine terms, I'd been being very rude to her!

What has it made me do differently? A difficult one. I think since reading it, I've just been trying really hard to look at myself and when I'm irritated that the dog isn't doing what I want it to do, ask myself what is it about me that's the problem here. I think we all bang on about knowing that it isn't the dog's fault, it's ours, but sometimes I'm not always sure what exactly it was I've done (or omitted to do) that really didn't help matters!

I'm debating about giving the book to my mum to read. I think she could learn a lot from it. Whether she wants to listen to what is said is another matter entirely though :wink:
 
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#3 ·
Still reading it here, but absolutely promise to come back to this thread when I've finished it.

So far I'd agree that it's immensly thought provoking, it made me think about the way that I interact with everybody not just Dyl. But I do keep hitting bits that I find hard going so I'd also agree about some parts seeming 'waffly'.
 
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#4 ·
Right! That's it! I really must finish "Bones.....".

I've started reading it 3 times now and seem to have missed the point, as what I read I didn't like/agree with, hence it ending up back on the shelf.

I've seen so many people rate it, maybe I should give it one more try. Perhaps I should put my cynical head on the shelf in it's place, while reading it. :wink:
 
#5 ·
_Jules_ said:
Right! That's it! I really must finish "Bones.....".

I've started reading it 3 times now and seem to have missed the point, as what I read I didn't like/agree with, hence it ending up back on the shelf
I love a good discussion. What didn't you like Jules?

To begin with, I thought she was just a bit too hearts and flowers for my liking. All 'if your dog says no listen to him.' I thought that's all well and good for an easy-going handler and dog, but no use for me who has a dog that's every bit as stubborn and wilful as I can be, and does need clear leadership and firm boundaries. However, as I read on I realised she wasn't meaning don't correct your dog or not insist that it complies with certain rules, but rather to realise when something isn't working and to try to understand and find different ways of persuading the dog to work with you. I don't go in for her spirituality/religion side of things at all, but I could see past that.
 
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#6 ·
Moj said:
I love a good discussion. What didn't you like Jules?
You know what Mo, I can't really put my finger on "why" I didn't like it. :? In fact, I'm not sure there was anything wrong with the book itself, more that I hate being told what to think.

I'm not one to over analyse what I or my dogs do. I tend to work almost purely from gut feeling and it's only when I've got something badly wrong (which happened a lot for years) that I then have a think about why it's going wrong and how I can correct this. I'm the sort of person who NEVER reads instructions, as unless I'm actually "doing", then it doesn't make sense. I learn from hands on experience not from words on a page and I think that side of me was fighting with this authors ideas, some of which to me sounded very pink and fluffy.

Maybe I should have finished the book before forming an opinion though, as no doubt things would have become clearer in the end. I'll go and dust it off now and put it by my bed. :wink:
 
#7 ·
i started reading it and didn't get very far through before becoming bored of the waffle. Mayb i'll try again and speed read til i get to good bits.
 
#8 ·
I think its an outstanding book. Absolutely outstanding. By far the best canine related book I have ever read of any sort. I think because it isn't exactly a 'training' book and isn't exactly a 'behavioural' book and isn't altogether a biography or constant case studies its hard to pin down quite where it fits on a bookshelf. So I just never take it off my bedside table!

I came to it, and friends will tell you, very convinced about canine rights and wrongs.... do's and don'ts. Things that were totally unacceptale to me under any circumstance (such as growling or posturing to defend something). This book made me look a little deeper. My previous reaction was 'I don't give a damn WHY that dog just raised its lip, its taking a little trip across the room first, then we can discuss reasons later....' I feel less that way now. Looking a little more to understanding complex personalities and previous steps towards the negative reaction.

The PROBLEM with the book, and I hate to write this, is now it has given me so much a clearer understanding of canine learning that i cringe all the more when some of those I train amongst use heavy handed tactics when I can clearly read utter bewilderment on the dogs face and in its body language.

It has made me a better dog owner, better gundog handler and MUCH better trainer (and possibly fractionally better person - although of course I was nearly perfect to begin with..... ;-) ;-) ;-) .

Di
 
#9 ·
" as unless I'm actually "doing", then it doesn't make sense. I learn from hands on experience not from words on a page and I think that side of me was fighting with this authors ideas, some of which to me sounded very pink and fluffy. "


Hi Jules, just a thought on above - or a question more. We have both had multiple dogs for years. So come at it in the 'more' experienced catagory to some I suppose. You say you learn from hands on experience... but what about when you are misreading something, or your knowledge doesn't extend to *that* sitauation or behaviour? What do you do if you've not come across such a thing before? I know I see them all the time... and so thats why i listen and read and turn pages and so on - to gain others insights... even if I then think they are completely wrong and dismiss from my mind most of it...

I am one of the least pink and fluffy people out there who sit on the pet/working gundog line. But I know that many things she said hit a cord and opened my eyes to WHY some things happen.

What I'm asking is how, if you just use your own experience to correct problems, do you learn more...? How do you move your training practices and experience forward?

Di
 
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#11 ·
Diana said:
What I'm asking is how, if you just use your own experience to correct problems, do you learn more...? How do you move your training practices and experience forward?
I think it's more a case of I learn from my many mistakes. :lol:

If I hit a brick wall and nothing I'm doing is going right, then I'll go away and try to put myself in the place of the other. Try to think how they think, try to get down to their level and this is how I've managed with the children (which can be just as much of a mystery at times), horses and dogs. I have made many Stonking Mistakes along the way and have had to have a rethink many, many times. There have also been times, especially with the horses, when I've had to ask someone to point out to me what I'm doing that is sooo wrong and to show me what I should be doing to get things back on track. But yet again, I have to actually be "Doing", I can't just be "told" what to do. I need to experience the process for myself, to question why it would work.

I do pick brains regularly but I can't follow someone's thoughts or ideas blindly. I have to question everything (you may have noticed that annoying little foible :wink: ) and try things out until they make sense to me and to whatever I'm working with. My biggest hate is being TOLD what you HAVE to do or HAVE to think and as soon as I feel that happening, then I start pushing in the other direction. This is another truely annoying foible as sometimes I know I'm wrong but I can't admit the other person is right (how my husband puts up with me I'll never know :lol: ).

All I know about dogs, is there is always something new to learn...and just like children and horses, what works for one, won't necessarily work for another, because they are all individual and all have the ability to think for themselves.

I think it's made me a nicer person for my dogs to have to live with.
Do you think it has made your dogs respond likewise and made them nicer to live with in return?
 
#12 ·
_Jules_ said:
I think it's made me a nicer person for my dogs to have to live with.
Do you think it has made your dogs respond likewise and made them nicer to live with in return?
Yes I do. There's a level of acceptance now between us that wasn't there before. I accept their quirks and individuality and don't try to constantly mould them into being something they're not, so they are happier dogs. Happy dogs are nicer to live with.

Becs
 
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#13 ·
Becs said:
Yes I do. There's a level of acceptance now between us that wasn't there before. I accept their quirks and individuality and don't try to constantly mould them into being something they're not, so they are happier dogs. Happy dogs are nicer to live with.
I'll have to try to read it again, won't I. Although I don't think I've ever done anything but accept them for what and who they are.....Well not knowingly anyway :?. I just try to work with what I've been given, whether that is a Dyslexic child, a parent with Dementia, a Chestnut Mare or a Poodle. :wink:
 
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#16 ·
Becs said:
You're a better (wo)man than me then Jules! For 9 years I tried unsuccessfully to mould my JR terrorist into a Labrador!
:lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe because I was bought up with them all around me, I learnt early on to just accept Jack Russells, warts an all.

I wonder if that is why I love cats .... :? ..... Perhaps I don't expect much, other than them to be what they are. And if you have no expectations, then you can't be disappointed, eh. Hmmmm. Now look what you've all done, you've got me analysing myself now 8O :lol: .
 
#17 ·
I really didn't get the vibe from the book that the author was trying to impose her views on me, tell me what to think, or what I have to do. I thought she actually worked quite hard to say 'this is what I think, but you make your own mind up.'

I absolutely hate feeling like I'm being told what to do too. I'm more about the guided learning and self-discovery :wink:

I do analyse things but I can't help it (or that's my excuse anyway) as it sort of goes with the territory of what I do for a living.

I think my 'trouble' for want of a better word with Bracken and I is that I'm trying to make her into a bit of a perfectionist like me, and it's just never going to happen! She could not care less, she's all about having a good time. I could learn a lot from that dog! :wink: :lol:
 
#18 ·
I am still reading the book so will post once I've finished it but so far I'm liking it as much as I thought I would - which is a lot. I don't like being told what to do/think/feel either but I'm not getting that feel from the book.

I think I decided to accept my dogs, quirks and all, the day we brought Max home :lol:. My dogs aren't perfect (and I'm far from!) but they are happy and we live happily together and that's what's important to me.
 
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#21 ·
Right I have got up to the bit where I always stop and give up, once more.

And then one day it happened. Without thought or effort, I could find the cool white space within myself where no ego existed, where I had a goal but also no goals at all, where there was only the dog who accepted my invitation to dance, and the world fell away.

OMG! Please someone tell me she stops with all this Flowery Cr*p, as otherwise I'm going to give up on this book for the last time.

Yet again, initially I can relate to what she is saying. I was also that child under the table trying hard to be a dog. I have sat and watched other's and seen their dogs and horses Praying for understanding and I have seen the bitterness and hopelessness in their animals eyes as that understanding never comes. But now she seems to have drifted into some sort of flowery, self analysing, self appreciating, subliminal messaging stuff, which makes me so uncomfortable and surprisingly angry :?.

Please tell me she gets back to the REAL stuff soon and stops all this subliminal nonsense, as otherwise I'm not going to make it past page 40 again. :roll:
 
#24 ·
Jules if its not to your taste leave it! Gosh! ;-) ;-) ;-) Its the way she writes. She is a thinker and she writes what she thinks. I can understand it being fluffy and flowery to some. I don't think those parts really register to me because I can speed read bits like that.

For me, what really hits home with her is how we misunderstand gestures, traditionally 'bad' behaviours, and how we assume we know what the dog is doing and how its being 'deliberately' *anything* when 'deliberately' is just not a word associated with a canines understanding of the world. The old adage of 'he'd wee'd on the floor/eaten the roast joint off the worktop/ripped up my slippers' and when I came home he KNEW because he was slinking about 'looking guilty' etc etc....

Those are the parts that strike gold with me. Skip to page 203 for a second... read the next two pages. I just think that sort of thing is so utterly facinating and really very new in canine writing.

But if you loathe it gosh don't torture yourself further ;-)

Di
 
#25 ·
I ordered this after reading about it on another thread here and only started reading it a few days ago.

I haven't got too far yet, but I'm glad I'm not the only one to find some of it a bit flowery - feels a bit like an over-long introduction so far and as though I'm waiting for the meat of it to begin. Although there's a nagging feeling I could be missing the point by thinking that! :D

It sounds like I'm just beyond where Jules was getting stuck, so I'll have to power on too - off to sneak a peek at p 203 first though!
 
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#26 ·
Diana said:
Jules if its not to your taste leave it!
No Di, I'm doggedly (pun very much intended) continuing. :wink:

So many knowledgable "doggy" people think it is a wonderful book, so many think it has bought about some great epiphany and I want that too. I want to have new and wonderful revelations to help me reach a greater understanding of our canine friends. So I shall plough on regardless and hope that somehow the points made don't go straight over my head. :wink:
 
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