Labradors Forums banner

would you feed BARF or KIBBLE?

  • BARF

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • KIBBLE

    Votes: 6 66.7%
  • No Preference

    Votes: 0 0.0%

Switching from Kibble to BARF - advice wanted from BARF owners please!!

5K views 37 replies 12 participants last post by  Tarimoor 
#1 ·
Hello all, firstly, my apologies for posting this as I am sure it may have been covered quite a bit.

We are currently feeding our pup on kibble but considering switching to BARF, after reading up on it from a few sources.

The reason that we are considering switching is due to the following.

We brought our pup home at just over 12 weeks, the 2nd or 3rd night we had him home he had diarrhoea really bad which then had bits of blood in it. We got him to the vets and they put him on a course of metronidazole followed by a course of probiotic paste.

The vets also advised us to mix some cooked rice with his meals to help form his poos. We took the decision to remove the rice as it was coming out as it went in! His poos did start forming but have been very inconsistent in that some will be quite well formed and then they will be creamy. His poos have now been inconsistent for a couple of weeks.

He is back at the vets tomorrow morning for this reason and also that in a number of poos today they have been thoroughly littered with what looks like tiny grains of rice (I mean a lot!!) he has had full courses of worming and flea treatments, so unsure if it is the aftermath of the treatment or whether some cheeky type of worm has slipped past the treatment. He had his last dose 2 weeks ago.

So this had added to us wanting to go au naturel and give him BARF, we have read from a source (Lab owner and breeder) to just go full turkey onto the BARF, but to start with one type of protein and then after set time add a 2nd type of protein etc etc. We have read that he should get around 10% of his bodyweight, which in Hunters case would be 1.1KG as he is 11KG. (If my maths is correct!?) now is that per day or is that per meal. We were thinking of starting him on 3x times a day due to age and then down to 2x a day once he is older.

Any help or advice from owners who feed their labs on BARF would be much appreciated and I thank you for taking the time to read. I also hope that this makes sense!

Regards.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Hi and welcome to you and Hunter.

I haven't voted as not a real barf feeder [only a chicken wing now and again for a treat;) ].

Hopefully one of the barf feeders will come on and give you some help soon.

Hunter sounds like quite a chunky pupster at 11 kg already so looking forward to a picture when you get a chance.

I do agree about stopping the rice, for some it can be hard to digest,the little grains could be a sign of worms that have been expelled if the worming treatment has worked so I wouldn't be too worried about that.

I wonder if worms have caused the upset tum though, and also I would hope your vet has done a test on poo to see if there is any bacteria or Campylobacter infection causing runny and upset tummy as this would need treatment before you introduce anything new.

Good luck with the barf feeding when you have sorted poor boy out though, will be interested in hearing how you get on.

Oh and PICS' please ;)

June x
 
#3 ·
Is the vet certain that his tummy has healed? My pup had giardia and we were advised it can be tricky to clear it however first course of treatment sorted it.

Could it be possible that he is being fed too much as that can cause loose stools?

I have read your other post and see you're using beta puppy food, according to all about dog food website that is actaully worse quality than bakers and pedigree. I really don't understand 'breeders' that don't research the food they give to their pups.

http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0255/beta-puppy-large-breed

I know you are keen on the raw but if my pup was on beta he/she would be getting moved to something else a lot better quality.

Before even considering changing his diet I would be making sure his tum is better first incase he has got worms or giardia etc
 
#4 ·
June, many thanks for your response, Hunter is a little over 16weeks old now and weighs in at 11kg, do you think that is quite heavy!? He looks like he will definately be a big chap when older. We read somewhere that a rough guideline is 1kg per week old but I am sure that is nonsense!?? He is quite big at the minute but healthy looking and I think he is quite bloated as feels quite gassy and bloated. Hoping the vet does tests tomorrow as they asked for us to take samples in. I think that was on there notes as follow up treatment!! Should it not improve dramatically. His poos at the minute are not watery but a mixture, some are creamy some are formed!! Will see what the vet says tomorrow!!
 
#7 ·
No I wouldn't think he is too heavy, and yes I found my girl put on an average of 1 kg per week up to approx 6/7 months then it slowed down and was steady for a long time, wish I could say she is a slim girl now though, something went wrong last couple of years and she has quite a few pounds to shed [we are weight watching as I type;) ], must add she is 71/2 now, but that is no excuse:(.

Hopefully the vet can establish whats going on with the tests, it may be his food if he is a bit windy/bloated, or there may be infection requiring treatment, as said already its not unusual for pups to get these infections early on, and they do sometimes take a while to clear up.

I found a tspn of Priobotic Natural Yoghurt did help and small amounts of light meals fish/chicken, maybe mashed potato instead of rice, 3/4 small meals a day, until poos firm up, plus the Prokolin from vet.

June x
 
#5 ·
Ttfan, many thanks for your response, I was starting to wonder if Beta may be the cause of some of it.
I was going to hold off on changing until seen the vet and ensured no underlying issue.
Now have 14kg of Beta that need to get rid of, hoping to dig the receipt out and take it back to the shop as they informed us that should any food not be suitable then we can take it back!!
 
#6 ·
Hi Hunter. I went through the same with puppy Gemma, permanently loose stools, often mucus'y and sometimes with blood for weeks and weeks until I changed her kibble. The difference was practically overnight! You wouldn't be the first person I've heard tempted to move to RAW/BARF after one or two bad experience with kibble, but personally I feel it's a little knee-jerky given there is such a vast choice of really good, all natural kibbles out there. But stuff you're unlikely to find in a supermarket which tend to be racks of cheap mass-market junk kibbles.

Even a close friend did this, tried his puppy on Bakers kibble (cheap filth for want of a better description) and based on that one experience alone decided kibble didn't suit and switched to pre-packed raw.

Gemma has done great on fish4dogs and millies wolfheart kibbles. Fish4dogs only sell direct online. Millies you might find in the odd specialist pet store but ordering direct is the easiest way to go. fish4dogs do 1.5kg small sample bags with a no-quibble money back guarantee. Millies do small sample sizes too but without the money-back offer (I think?).

Sorry that hasn't really answered your question re BARF advice, it's a personal choice and kudos to you for whatever choice you make.
 
#9 ·
Hello all, Hunter has been to the vets and they are doing tests on 2 stool samples which I took. One had tapeworm eggs / larvae in it and the other from this morning looked clear.

The vet has put him on a 7 day course of panacur to really clear him out and has advised us to switch his food so now trying him on Royal Canin. Hopefully his poos will start forming.

I also spoke to the vet with regards to switching to BARF and they have said that they would not recommend it but said that we could mix a bit of raw food in with his meals if we wanted.

It all comes down to difference of opinion I think, because you could ask 10 people the best thing to feed puppies / dogs on and you could probably get 10 different answers!!
 
#10 · (Edited)
Hello all, Hunter has been to the vets and they are doing tests on 2 stool samples which I took. One had tapeworm eggs / larvae in it and the other from this morning looked clear.

The vet has put him on a 7 day course of panacur to really clear him out and has advised us to switch his food so now trying him on Royal Canin. Hopefully his poos will start forming.

I also spoke to the vet with regards to switching to BARF and they have said that they would not recommend it but said that we could mix a bit of raw food in with his meals if we wanted.

It all comes down to difference of opinion I think, because you could ask 10 people the best thing to feed puppies / dogs on and you could probably get 10 different answers!!

At least now you know what the problem is and hopefully the panacur will clear it up.
Have you looked at www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk ?

Royal canin isn't too good either, everyone has their own opinions on what is the 'best' food however the site above lists all the ingredients in the vast majority of foods available.

There are many good foods available to choose from, some look expensive however a good quality food will probably work out cheaper as feeding portions are generally smaller.



http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0068/royal-canin-giant-puppy

just one of the royal canin puppy foods, not good at all and very expensive
 
#13 ·
That may be true as a lot of vets are apparently "taught" dog diets by representatives from these various food companies. Not sure how true that is! The reason that we picked royal canin is because my friend and colleague has a lab that was very sensitive and found that only royal canin and science plan worked for her (the lab). So I didn't pick it on the advice of the vet alone. I know that a lot of vets don't do a great deal of research and just go off what they have been told / taught on their courses! Just wanted to clarify and no offence or such like intended! :)
 
#12 ·
As mentioned previously, you could ask 10 people what to give a dog and you would likely get 10 different answers lol, whilst I accept and value everybody's opinion, it is a case of what works for Hunter. If this brand works for him then happy days, if not then we will continue searching for a brand that suits! You could read a hundred reviews and I could almost guarantee that there will be negative reviews for every product on the market.

This is not intended to come across or be a swipe at anyone so please do not take to heart if it is perceived that way as it is not my intention to upset or rubbish anyone's opinions! As stated I welcome all input that experienced owners may wish to present!

Many thanks.
 
#14 · (Edited)
It's up to you what you feed your pup and there's no reason for anyone to take anything to heart. For the cost of the Royal canin I would be picking something good quality but again that's up to you. The ingredients are not good. No one here has really advised what you should feed as we all have our personal preferences. The website I linked to is nothing to do with individual reviews. It give reviews of the ingredients in all the foods.


I certainly wouldn't feed a food that is full of fillers and no good quality meat, does this list look healthy and appetising to you?




I would rather something like this which has far healthier ingredients, smaller portions and be better value for money :)

 
#15 · (Edited)
I am unable to see the name of the 2 brands that you have compared, am I correct in presuming that the 1st one is royal canin and the 2nd is the brand that you use? What is the name of the bottom one that you have compared please? Did you mention in the other forum as I am sure you mentioned which was the one you used! going to have a look at the site now as not had chance due to being at work.
 
#16 ·
Yes the top is Royal canin. The bottom one is one I use which is called Millies Wolfheart, there are many other good foods available though.

If you go on the all about dog food site it lists every food out there. You can search either by wet/dry or click the box to start with top rated first.


You can honestly do better than the Royal canin food, with so much choice out there there's no reason to feed a poor quality unless you have to.

Some of the foods looks expensive per bag but when you look at portions it can work out cheap. If I buy two bags of 14.5kg food at a time it only costs me around 90 p a day (excluding Millies Wolfheart treats) that is not a lot to feed a good food.

Everyone has their preferences but I think it's daft to prefer a bad quality one unless it's the absolutely only food a dog will tolerate.
 
#17 ·
that was it I knew I would remember after seeing it again! You would think that these "top" (I use the term loosely) companies / brands would have it down to a tee. especially for the price they slam on it. But when you do your homework, I agree that it isn't all that great!
might have to make another trip and change the food again before his insides go into complete meltdown! Or should we keep him on the bag we have, let him settle for a bit and then switch out to the better stuff?
In a muddle now, as feel sorry for the wee man having his food chop and changed every few days!!
 
#18 ·
If he is ok at the moment on what he is using then I would keep him on it until his tummy clears. Yes it's not good but too many changes at once isn't the best.

I would then swap over to a good quality one once he is clear of his bug. A dog will eat any food given but will not thrive so much on a poor quality one. My girl looks brilliant and her coat is gleaming, I really wouldn't feed anything else now unless I have to.

I hope his tummy settles down soon and we all need to see some photos :)
 
#19 ·
It may have come across as a bit of an exaggeration as he hasn't had that many changes lol. We couldn't clarify the actual food that the breeder had him on, but they said beta. we tried him on some store brand which was a poor choice then we had him on beta puppy and that doesn't seem to be agreeing with him. we then moved him onto royal canin today at dinner time.

I think we will keep him on royal canin, let him finish his course of 7 days on panacur. then about a week or so after completion of that we may go for one of the foods that has high rating on the site or the millies wolfheart.

I 100% agree that when you compare the two, if I was looking at it from a personal point of view I wouldn't want to eat the top one and would go for the wolfheart, so if I wouldn't eat it then why should my dog!!

Bottom line, is you are basically paying for the name with these "top" brands rather than the content!

Hope that makes sense!!
 
#20 ·
It's a minefield when looking at food, I agree that I wouldn't eat it either. There are lots to choose from and at the end of the days it's what you like best.

When i was looking last year it took me about 3 Weeks of research and I kept going back to MW. At the end of the day though what suits one dog may not suit another.

I have been asked by my vet twice if I want to try the hills science they sell- I'm happy to explain to them I will be sticking with Millies.

I even use their cat food for our kitten :)
 
#21 ·
We may change onto the millies wolfheart or something similar as I think they sell that at the store where we have been going.

Once he has finished his course / treatment of panacur we are thinking of changing his vet aswell as he is currently with companion care and I think they are too commercialised. There is a good vets (I hear they are good but you may correct me) that is down the road from us called ark veterinary practice. they charge a monthly fee but some of there benefits may suit us.
 
#22 ·
I do agree with everyone about Vets and Royal Canin.Martha has irritable bowel syndroome.We wanted to feed Raw,but it didn't agree with her.We have tried several different brands which again didn't suit.She is now on Royal Canin ANallergenic.She has perfect poos,coat good and putting on weight.Its very expensive food,but so far it works for her.Good luck Hunter with your dog.
 
#23 ·
Hello Margaret, many thanks for your comment and just to clarify, Hunter is the name of our pup!! We are currently just wanting to get his poos formed and sorted out, let him settle. Then we will be switching to possibly millies as looking at the labels a lot of the "commercial" stuff is actually garbage! I feel you need to approach it in the way that we do in that, would you prefer to eat greasy fatty garbage filled kebabs everyday or would you prefer a good steak with peppercorn sauce!?? grilled tomatoes, mushrooms and salad??!! I know which I would pick!
 
#27 ·
Hi PhilG, many thanks for your post, we are currently having him on royal canin, once he has finished his course of panacur, a couple of weeks after that we are going to try him on millies wolfheart, this us because it looks so much more nutritious. If he gets on with that we were thinking about once he is beyond 6months or so then mixing a little bit of raw in with one of his meals a day to see how he takes to it. There are many Ford and againsts for all types of feeding but the biggest point I seem to hear/read is that although decendants of wolves and what not, dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years and as treeline progresses people say that the digestive tracts change. Now I am no expert or professional by any means but this seems a valid point. I know that many people feed raw and have no problems but its all down to personal choice isn't it!? I would welcome your views / opinions on this and if I was to start mixing a bit in one meal per day how much you would recommend and what you would recommend!! Many thanks
 
#29 ·
but its all down to personal choice isn't it!?
It's exactly this! I feed raw as I know exactly what my dogs are eating, I know it's not been processed, bulked out, added to, etc. It's just personal choice, taking in the relevant information and then you decide. I don't really buy the dogs are wolves thing, as you mention, that was a long time ago and the way they've been domesticated, bred and changed to suite living and working with humans is so far away from a wild wolf! So I do it just to provide my dogs with healthy nutritious food. It's also interesting for them too as they get something different every meal! Not that they care so much there, they're labs and I've never had a fussy eater! :cheesygrin:

My two are now 2.5 years and 8 months, and they both get the same amount, 800g per day, split into two meals. The 2.5 year old has been 29kg for well over a year now, so I know this much maintains his weight based on the exercise he gets too! The youngster has been raw fed since she was about 3 months, I part used the bag of kibble she came with from the breeder and then switched her onto raw. She was intially on about 600g per day split into 3 meals, but that went up as she got a bit bigger and then went down to 2 meals when she was just over 6 months old. It's all about keeping an eye on them and noticing if they need a bit more or a bit less as thye're all different, and that counts for raw or kibble!

If you want to give it a try and mix in with kibble then I'd suggest a few chicken wings as a starter, they're easily available and you can just substitute one of your meals for some wings. Then if your dog and you like the idea the butcher's your friend!

It's not as convenient as kibble, you have to prepare, maybe butcher (chopping an ox heart in your kitchen is a messy business!) and need another freezer as Tim mentioned. But the choice is there, all depends on what you want to feed your dog?
 
#28 ·
I have been feeding my boys raw since they were about 4 months old. Switched George originally as he was a fussy pup, but was on James Wellbeloved. Alfie, who we got in France (but is related to George, who is from the UK), was on Proplan. Once that big bag was finished, he was switched.

They are fit as butchers dogs (real brutes) and everyone says how amazingly white their teeth are. They love their meals.

That said, they have gone onto kibble if they go to kennels or are watched by our friends. I would normally prepack raw, but two dogs x 4 meals to prep per day adds up.

As for the switch, I went cold turkey too. However, feed number of meals as appropriate for age, as it seems you intend to do. It is less to do with BARF vs kibble, more on stomach size (which in Labs is generally classified as bottomless pit ;) )

As a guide, I fed Alfie, even as a pup 700 g per day, split between meals. 350g per meal seems to suit my lads. They get a bit more sometimes, sometimes a bit less (even less when OH put the food that was defosting back in the fridge :rolleyes: ) But whilst that seems a lot for a pup, they are growing.

Oh and get a freezer - it will save loads in the long run. But even in France, I find raw cheaper or about the same as decent kibble.

And as said, get his tummy sorted and then move.
 
#30 ·
I did look up raw diets when Gemma was puppy, and on principle it does sound a great thing to do. Unfortunately I'm the weak link, I just can't stomach it because I'm not good with offal. Liver & Onions, blurrrrhhh. Steak and Kidney Pie, hold the kidney lol.

I can't even walk into a butchers shop without heaving from the smell of raw flesh and blood! It's a shame really, I'll do almost anything for my girl but just not that!

Just out of curiosity, how easily do you find it to source supplies? Our puppy trainer had 5 dogs of her own on raw and she said it was becoming increasingly difficult to sustain her supplies of bones and off-cuts etc from her local butcher as he was getting cleared out as demand was was increasing.
 
#31 ·
Just out of curiosity, how easily do you find it to source supplies? Our puppy trainer had 5 dogs of her own on raw and she said it was becoming increasingly difficult to sustain her supplies of bones and off-cuts etc from her local butcher as he was getting cleared out as demand was was increasing.
I think I'm quite lucky in that I get everything my dogs eat from a butcher on our local market, they do seem to stock a good supply maybe because I and others keep going back! I buy all the stuff folk don't normally buy, lamb/chicken necks, lamb/pig/ox/chicken hearts, pig trotter and tails, ox cheek, pig/ox tongue, chicken carcasses and so on, all probably the same stuff that goes into your beef or chicken kibble!

The days where you'd get stuff for free from your butcher are long gone, probably because many don't actually butcher anymore, they get cuts straight in. You can supposedly get stuff very cheaply direct from the abattoir, but there's not one close enough to me to warrant going.

PS - If you don't like the smell of the butchers then maybe raw isn't for you! The smell of fresh green tripe isn't to everyone's taste! :cool:
 
#33 ·
Firstly, don't do anything until his tum is settled. Then I'd give it a good month or so before you try to switch.

My philosophy is to feed what they'll eat and what keeps them in condition and healthy. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Mine have been on kibble through their entire lives...all types, Pro plan, Royal Canin, Burns. We're currently using ProPlan. They all have sparking white teeth, no extra teeth cleaning chews, just the odd Bonio.

They get raw treats, a carcass, raw chicken, bones maybe once a month. It has no adverse affects other than white pooh! They also get raw veg...carrots but currently courgettes too.

As Tim says, all the stuff you mention, with the exception of the necks, are sold here for human consumption, so they aren't always cheap.
 
#35 ·
As Tim says, all the stuff you mention, with the exception of the necks, are sold here for human consumption, so they aren't always cheap.
It's all sold for human consumption here, other than green tripe and a specific pet mince the butcher makes up!

Thinking about it I wonder if they stock it as there's more European folk in the UK these days? Another reason we should have stayed in the EU, but that's history and very off post! :cheesygrin:
 
#34 ·
Another raw feeder here😀 For the same reasons I suppose as everyone else, I know exactly what he's eating, sparkly white teeth, soft silky shining coat that looks like black velvet, fit and healthy, so all good. Added bonuses being, no dog breadth, no smelly farts and less pooh!!!

I don't find it difficult at all, we have a caravan in north Devon so from March through to October we're down there for 9 days and home for 5, all through the season (only come home to take grandson to school 🙄 ), we keep a freezer in the awning and just transport his food. Landywoods deliver 4 weekly here so I order enough to last about 3 months and we're all set.
I make up batches of beef, lamb, tripe, organ meat and add a blended mix of veg, fruit, eggs and seeds, he then has chicken carcasses, feet, wings, pig trotters, duck necks and veal ribs, so lots of variety and the constitution of an ox 😀😀.
OH remarked once when we were loading up the car " up and down the van like this, it would be so much easier if you fed dried food then all you'd have to do is open a bag" and yeah I suppose it would but I just cannot bring myself to do it, I just can't 😜😜and after all, I AM just opening a bag !!!!!
 
#36 ·
I bet they aren't in your regular supermarket chiller cabinets.

Mmm, as you say, very off topic! Best not go there and it ain't over until the fat lady sings ;-)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Casodil and PhilG
#38 ·
I source my own raw, it can be cheap that way but it's more difficult, you do have to ask around and find good quality suppliers. That said, I don't think raw food suits every dog going, and as others have said, I'd certainly want to get to the bottom (excuse the pun) of any tummy upsets before switching foods around.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top