Linny  Offline
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 Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: Feeding raw meat |
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Hi every one 
I am sure this question has been asked before but can any one give me advice on feeding Cadbury raw food? I have no idea on quantity etc.
Cadbury is 18months old.
Have others found it successful? can it cause problems?
Thanks!
Linny and Cadbury 
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Animal-Outings Offline
And The Ripon Ruffians
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Linny Offline
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Carroll,
Thanks! I will wait with you!!!
I am quite keen to give it ago, but have no idea where to start!!
Linny x
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Animal-Outings Offline
And The Ripon Ruffians
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Lab Names: Majic (Lab) - 10/6/05, Pip (Lab x Collie) Passed away 24/02/10. RIP x
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Put this into search just been talking to Kay (Kayc) on chat
'species appriopriate diet'
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kayc Offline
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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I cant find the link either on the search so here goes
Carroll & Linny...are you sitting comfortably??? Lol
I have given as much detail as I can, however although I have studied nutrition, I cannot claim to be a nutritionalist, therefore all that I have written is purely personal preference after much deliberation and researching. Although I do have to say, that my father, as a breeder, was feeding RAW, long before processed dog food ever reached the Market Place. Remember we never had dog food, and many dog owners did not have pedigree dogs,(they were only affordable by the wealthy) and therefore most dogs pre 40 years ago were fed table scraps and leftovers. And bones from the butchers were all free. The average life span of a dog back then was around 17 years. In recent years where more dogs are being fed processed dog food, the reduction of the life span is now around 8/12 years. Unfortunately we are now in too much of a rush and not only feed our animals processed food, we feed ourselves processed prepacked, precooked meals too. And look at the damage this is now causing.
Most experienced raw feeders no longer use the term BARF as it suggests that we slavishly follow Ian Billinghurts book. His first book Give your dog a bone, whilst interesting is extremely badly written and difficult to digest (LOL); IB has a bit of a fetish for veggies and supplements which a lot of us are not into preferring to think of veggies as occasional niceties but not necessary and supplements required on an individual basis. I think a lot of people are deterred from raw feeding by this book. The easiest of his books to read is the BARF diet. Personally I think that the best introduction to raw feeding is natural nutrition for dogs and cats by Kmythy Schultze; it is accessible, has feeding plans and is very simple. There is also T Lonsdale's book Raw Meaty Bones; he is obsessed by dental health! (LOL) but it would not be my first choice for a beginner.
Dr Pitcairn's book advocates the use of grains etc which most of us do not subscribe to; dogs have a short alimentary canal ill equipped to digest complex carbohydrates; that said he does have some interesting info in his book especially with regard to some homoeopathic remedies etc.
Supplements….Alfalfa and Kelp are easily found and Dorwest have a good supplement called Keepers Mix which includes other things. Edible bonemeal is something I would steer clear of] if you feed RMBs this is not necessary. As for yeast I stay completely away from this as it is a fungus and no one wants to encourage fungal growth in dogs ears etc etc and again is completely unecessary.
If you want to know where you can get a list of raw feeding suppliers then Britbarf on Yahoo is excellent; AMP, Albion, Berriewood, Landywood all supply and deliver and you can get frozen raw meet from some of them at places like Pets at Home. I prefer to feed my dogs human grade meat and get my supplies from a poultry wholesaler; these are easily found in the yellow pages; or your local abbattoir, farm shop etc etc. Bones you can get free from a butcher.
If you are just talking about giving your dogs a bone in order to chew for recreation rather than giving RMBs as a meal then you would offer large recreational bones such as knuckle and shin bones in order to exercise the jaw, clean the teeth etc but remove them before they started to hack away at them because such large bones can break teeth.
Too much bone can be constipating!
In general dogs fed raw should be given 2 - 3% of their adult bodyweight per day. If they are pups then 2 - 3% of their projected adult bodyweight per day or 10% of the present bodyweight per day. However as far as I know, as most people, other than those on a diet, do not weigh their own food this is not really necessary. Quantities vary from dog to dog depending on their build, temperament, time of year, exercise etc. I feed RMBs every day for one meal and the others are made up of raw meat, raw offal, raw fish, raw eggs, and a tiny bit of veggies.
The most important thing in raw feeding is to make sure you give a correct phosphorus:calcium ratio which can ONLY be provided by ensuring that raw meaty bones are fed ie consumable bones such as chicken wings, carcases, drumsticks, thighs, turkey, lamb chops, beef ribs, whole rabbit etc etc etc If you do not feed any bones at all then you must provide another form of calcium either bonemeal (which is cooked) or eggshells etc.
Added to the RMBs that you feed, which should not make up more than 60% of the total diet, are organ meats such as liver, kidneys etc, muscle meat ie all meat in chunks, heart, raw or tinned fish, raw eggs and a small amount of vegetables and fruit (this is optional) which need to be pureed for any nutrients to become available for the dog's use and don't forget raw, green tripe. Dogs have no need for carbohydrates and most raw feeders do not feed grains as the dog is not designed to process cooked cereals.
It is important to feed from as wide a source as possible to avoid your dog becoming food intolerant ie pig, cow, sheep, chicken, turkey, deer, rabbit, lamb the list is endless.
In order to balance the Omega 6:Omega 3 ratio it is recommended that you feed Fish Body Oils (all grain fed meat is high in 6 but low in 3) and if you add this you MUST also feed natural Vitamin E. Extras can include kelp and or alfalfa (both of which contain all the minerals and vitamins), and Vitamin C; I also feed a clove of raw garlic every day.
Marrow bones etc are NOT for consuming but merely recreation and should be taken away once the marrow and cartilage have been stripped.
Veggies - All exept onions they can cause haemolytic anaemia in dogs because they contain chemicals that oxidise the animal's red blood cells.
Oxalic acid can interfere with calcium absorption; so don't feed too much of Spinach, Chard and Beetroot Leaves.
Care should be taken not to overfeed cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale, swedes, turnips, cassava, millet, and broccoli to dogs as this may inhibit thyroid function.
Tomatoes, potatoes, peppers and aubergines all belong to the nightshade family of plants. Dogs who have arthritis may be sensitive to these foods;
Fruit - all except Grapes and raisins which can cause kidney failure.
Dairy - IMHO nothing except live yoghurt. Although my dogs are lactose tollerant, I also feed cheese and milk etc...but on the whole dogs are generally lactose intollerant....
Vitamins/Supplements?
Again that is down to the individual; my dogs get fresh clove of garlic every day, 1000mg FBO, 400 iu Natural Vitamin E, 1000mg of Ester C with bioflavonoids and Keepers Mix (alfalfa/kelp)
I feed no grains/cereals in any form whatsoever
Now, All feeds given to my dogs are 100% human grade food. The only concern I would ever have on this subject is Neosporosis. This can simply be eliminated by Freezing ALL beef before feeding. The spores are killed and are no longer a risk.
All feeding contains a certain amount of risk, which is why, when feeding raw, care must be taken and the dog watched until food is consumed, but I would assume this care with a dog feed on processed feed also. But at least I know exactly what I am putting into my dogs. And I would never feed anything that I would, or could not eat myself.
Not only is feeding raw cheaper to feed than commercial dog foods, but there are enormous savings to be made by not having all those vet visits to fix your dogs' allergies. Are you asking yourself yet, "why hasn't my vet recommended this?" Yes, I would ask that of them too. Unfortunately most vets receive NO education at university on dog diet other than what the commercial dog food company reps tell them! (yes, this is the education they PAY to get - unbelievable. Luckily, some universities are realizing this mistake and are making amends).
So much for objective information! ...
A raw diet provides a range of benefits that commercial dog diets can never hope to even closely match.
These benefits include:
1.no doggy odour
2.naturally cleans teeth - no need for toothbrushes, de-scaling jobs, or gum disease
3.the time it takes for a dog to chew a raw meaty bones give their stomach adequate time to get the acids moving
4.much less stools produced - and they are firm, and turn chalky after a couple of days
5.decreased or non-existant vet bills (your dogs are healthier!)
6.less cost for dog food - commercial dog foods are ludicriously expensive
7.mirrors what a dog would be getting in the wild - and certainly even the modern day dog has a digestive tract exactly the same as a wolf
8.puppies develop at a more appropriate rate - and quick growth spurts are avoided. A GOOD breeder will want to stop fast growth in any pup.
9.the ripping and chewing involved in eating raw meaty bones develops the jaw, neck, and shoulder muscles of the dog. Commercial dog foods will never assist in this important muscle development
People who have switched their dogs to a raw diet from commercial dog foods have found the following:
·dogs who were previously un-energetic, and sluggish become completely new dogs once the raw diet feeding begins
·allergies their dogs previously had on commercial foods, disappear once they start with the raw diet
·arthritis has significantly reduced or disappeared in some dogs switched to raw
·better weight control
·no more doggy odour!
·their dogs are living longer on a raw diet than what their other dogs previously had survived on commercial dog foods
·that their bitches managed their pregnancies better
·better weight and survival figures in puppies
There are a range of problems with commercial dog foods
1.a dog's food should never be cooked. It should be fed in a raw natural state like nature intended. Cooking a dog's food ruins most of the nutritional value.
2.dogs should have access to raw meaty bones. These clean their teeth, work and develop their neck and jaw muscles, and the chewing action prepares their stomach for the incoming food mass. Chewing bones also slows down the eating process considerably, making it far harder for a dog to over eat.
3.dog foods have as their main ingredient cereals - the main ingredient your dog should be eating is raw meaty bones. And it is these very cereals that cause a range of problems such as allergies.
4.commercial dog foods are laden with preservatives, colors (dyes), and salt. They have additives to make the food taste better so that the dogs will overeat.
5.the vast majority of commercial dog foods have far too much carbohydrates in them. High levels of carbohydrates are linked to over-eating, diabetes, weight gain, and numerous other problems. Dogs should eat a diet with only a small amount of carbs.
6.there is no substitute for a raw diet.
and most scarey of all:
7.your vet is most probably recommending a commercial diet because of financial inducements and a lack of independent learning.
Raw chicken bones are fantastic for your dog. They are soft enough so that they bend easily, and break well for the dog to digest.
On the other hand, cooked chicken bones can be a problem, and I recommend that you DON'T feed COOKED chicken bones.
Some people are worried about their dog choking on bones. While such incidents are very rare (far more incidents occur with dogs choking on kibble), I encourage the feeding of bigger portions of meaty bones, or if available, whole carcasses, such as whole chickens or rabbits.
So could a raw chicken bone kill a dog? Well I guess that anything is possible. Certainly scientifically you can't prove a negative argument. However what we do know is that dogs have died from inhaling kibble the wrong way and choking and suffocating to death.
Feeding your dog is about management of risk. No matter which path you decide to take there is always risk. There is always someone who will criticise your decision. However you, and only you can decide what is best for your dogs. Weigh up all the benefits and risks. Do your own analysis. Do your research. Do what will have the greatest overall benefit for your dog.
some dogs who have been raised on commercial food who don't actually ever learn to chew.
You need to be careful with all dogs regardless of what they eat during their meal times. I've heard of dogs choking and dying on kibble, and dogs choking on raw meaty bones. - Just like I have heard of humans who have choked and died on a small piece of sausage or cheese.
You should supervise all meal times.
If a dog is scarfing down their food, I feed them by hand, in an isolated environment, until they learn how to chew. Chewing is critical for a dog. And literally some dogs need to figure it out as adults how to do it. Sometimes I will hold one end of the chicken carcass and not let them swallow it until they have chewed it a bit. Puppies that I have brought up feeding raw meaty bones from an early age never seem to have these sort of issues. But you never can tell.
Some dogs will try and inhale even large meaty bones, so you really need to work with these guys carefully. They should eventually work it out. As stated early, feed really large portions, that forces the dogs to chew.
There is an increasing understanding that best nutrition is achieved when feeding the whole carcass, rather than just bits of it. So to help a "scarfer" perhaps a whole carcass might slow them down.
there is bacteria everywhere. Dogs have an amazing immunity system specifically designed to eat all manner of bacteria. And a healthy raw fed fed dog manages those bacteria without a problem.
E-coli, salmonella, etc are found on raw chicken, but those nasties are also found in your fridge, in your sink, on your floor, in your backyard, in your car, on the footpath, down at the park, and perhaps in your bed! Interestingly, the only cases I have heard of dogs dying from e-coli or salmonella, were dogs fed commercial dog foods.
The most important thing is to wash your hands thoroughly after feeding your dogs, and even after cutting up meat for your own meals. Our digestive systems are not quite as robust as our dogs, so we must protect ourselves.
I use a spray bottle containg white vinegar which I spray about when I need some disinfecting.
I have been feeding my animals a raw for just over 2 years now, and have yet to have a problem with bacterial infections with my dogs. They are so darn healthy, they are never at the vets! Well, except for when I got them micro-chipped.
Additionally I have raised 3 litters successfully on a raw diet.
Dogs do not have the digestive system to cope with grains. Most commercial dog foods contain more than 50% grains (yes, this includes all those fancy expensive ones too! ) Grains are one of the biggest sources of allergies in dogs.
Life is about learning. Part of my core instinct is to help people out. As part of this, I feel a great desire to ensure that we look after our fellow furry friends.
With my show dogs, I call the raw diet, "my secret advantage". On one level I would much prefer that my competitors don't feed the raw diet, as I know their dogs will not be in the same condition as my guys. But on the other hand, what I want most, is for dogs to be healthy, regardless of who owns them.
Interestingly now days, the raw diet speaks volumes in the ring, and I often get asked the question, "what do you feed?".
I often win dog food at dog shows. The first thing I do with that is put it in the closest trash bin. There's no room for that sort of rubbish in our dogs' diet. The health of my dogs is far too important for me to compromise it by feeding a vastly inferior standard of food that commercial food represents.
So sorry for the length of this, but I have cherry picked, and basically summarised all that I feel and feed.
Please feel free to pick out what you need and let me know is there is anything else in particular that you may want to know about
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Kay |
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