End of retrieve help SleepingLion/Di/Barney2007 VIDEO ADDED

_Suzy_ · Last edited by _Suzy_ on Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

Can someone please give me some pointers on how I should be asking chester to retrieve to my hand?

He goes away with enthusiasm, but does not return with any!

Things I have done/doing:

I have got to the stage where he will sit and wait until item/dummy/whatever is thrown and landed, and then send him off

He will pick it up, and come back, but not 'right' up to me, and he will drop it on the floor about a foot or so away, will sit.

I am trying to teach 'take' 'hold' and 'give'.. once he has brought it to me and drops it, I am asking him to 'take' and then 'hold' and then 'give'.. obviously in stages, and its going pretty slowly.. am I right in doing all 3 at the same time.. or should I just do it step by step, and then put all together??

I do not have any video footage of 'recent recent' training, as its difficult to do this and video ourselves.. (just me and chester most of the time) but I have found 3 little videos and put them together.. 1 is just a stick, and 1 is a water dummy, and one is er... haha.. a rubber chicken from when he was titchy.. and looking back he was better as a 3 month old! so I am clearly messing things up as he gets old and need some direction.. Embarassed

Can you please have a look and tell me where I am going wrong, and what I need/should be doing.. I have left my stupid voice on so you can hear what I am saying, not saying etc! Embarassed

Besides ALWAYS having something tasty on me for him to return, or to whale in a high pitched voice until he returns.. what else can I being doing? (am leaving the treats as much as I can as I do not want him to become dependant on them!) I think having watched the videos myself all in one go, I should drop the 'bring it back then' and stick to 'here' and work on it.. Smile

Many thanks in advance..

(He is 13 months old, and only retrieved a dummy from the water for the first time on saturday, and I want to make sure I don't mess things up now)

http://www.onetruemedia.com/shared?p=68802688b1c0a772f440c3&skin_id=601&utm_source=otm&utm_medium=text_url

cheekygityorks · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject:

im sure the more experienced will be along shortly but when he drops it in front of you step forward to the dummy and nudge it with your foot till he picks it up then take a couple of steps back and encourage him in. if he knows uve got a treat hes bound to spit it out in favour of the treat

rach_willibob · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject:

Some observations about your vid and things I have been taught which may help:

1. Do not tell him he is a good boy until after the exercise is completed. It encourages the dropping of the dummy, particularly if you are giving him treats as he will think "oh I've done that right, time for a treat" - spit! and then he actually thinks you want him to spit the dummy.

2. Re-enforce your recall... does he actually understand what "bring it back" means? how do you recall him normally? use whatever you use normally - he doesn't need a different command just because he is carrying something.

3. Regards the hand-delivery, get down on the floor or crouch down at his level, he is more likely to return straight to you when you do this than when you are stood straight upright. Don't snatch the dummy from him, take it gently from his mouth accompanied by a release command if thats what you want to use. This is what you need to concentrate on rather than teaching him a command to pick the dummy up from the floor, so therefore the 'take' command becomes redundant - he shouldn't have dropped it down there in the first place! If he does drop - don't say anything to do, re-do the exercise and only reward verbally or with a treat when its completed properly.

4. Be consistent with your commands and only use when needed rather than talking to him the whole time he is out doing the retrieve. Pick a word to send him on, use your standard recall (if you have to) to get him back to you and then the release command (again only if you have to - some dogs will instantly release the item when they feel the pressure of you trying to take it from them).

Do you go to any training classes?

_Suzy_ · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject:

Thanks Rach Smile

His recall is 'here' or the whistle... better recall on the whistle, 9/10 he will come bounding back and sit right up close to me.. but I haven't used the whistle with retreiving yet.. (I see your point now) DUNST HAT FOR SUZY!

I see what you mean about be talking constantly, poor boy probably thinks what my OH does.. he prob just hears 'bla bla bla' Laughing

Ok, will cut out all my jibberish... 'bring it back' is just something I naturally started saying since he was a pup.. but I doubt he knows what I mean.. just blurs into all the other stuff I say.

Training classes, yes, but only puppy ones, up until he was about 6/7 months..

rach_willibob · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject:

Have pm'd you too Suzy! Very Happy

barney2007 · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject:

Awww he's a lovely lad.

Firstly, thank you for mentioning me on your title Smile

it's lovely that someone thinks I may know a thing or two (most likely for the first time in my life!) Very Happy

but I best put you in the picture Wink

. I am very much a novice still, with a novice dog and so don't have a great deal of experience. There are certainly plenty on here who have trained a fair few dogs and will come along with good advice.

That said, here's my take for what it's worth.... I agree with all that Rach said above! Definately good advice on the praising and something I'm guilty of from time to time. It is possible that an early priase will tune your dog into thinking, 'ahh great, job's done then' and spit the dummy out as a result.

I am not a lover of giving treats as a reward. Titbits at the end of a retrieve could well see your dog spit the dummie out becuase he thinks great, 'their you go, dummies over there. Now where's my treat?'. Rather than treats, the dog should come to you because he wants to and this is generally because you give him lots of praise at the right moment and you are an interesting person.

Ahh yes, 'interesting people'... now you may not be suffering from this affliction. I did for a wee while. My dog in the early days thought the tree/log/fence/other person over there was more fascinating than me. Often dogs don't come back to you because you are looking worried/stressed about the retrieve / you are going to take away his prize, in which case you need to up the anti and make it all great fun...forget about making your dog sit and stay etc, just get out there and throw the dummy around make it exciting and as soon as he brings it back throw it immediately etc. Really get him wound up / because your voice is boring and of one pitch and the dog has tuned out, although having seen you on the video, happilly I don't think that's the case.

The dog could also be spitting out the dummy because of the way you are taking it from him. Are you trying to grab it? Quick grabbing of the dummy because you think 'oh no, oh no he's going to drop it again', can really put a dog off....this I know to my peril! You need to start again, and just like Rach said, get on the ground, be on his level and encourage him into you and don't lunge! On occasion give the dummy straight back to him and let him walk round with it for a while, maybe do some heal work at the same time. This reinforces the point that you are not going to steal, grab, panic about his retrieving and that he is sometimes rewarded with the dummy/and or another immediate throw.

Water retrieves, now they're tricky and I'll come back to you at a later date when I've finally mastered a good retrieve out of water myself Wink

Hx

_Suzy_ · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject:

Brilliant!!

Thank you... another pair of eyes and ears is great.. and I am quite embaressed looking back at those videos, just shows you exactly what you should and shouldn't be doing Embarassed

Tomorrow is another day.. and I will put the above into practice, and hopefully see an improvement in time..

I think I need to make it more fun, as I am sure as you said he will pick up on my stress/worry about him retrieving..

Barney2007, I have seen your training vids/retrieves, and Barney is great!

Tractorgirl · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:19 pm Post subject:

another tip re: retaining the dummy (suggested by Jill and my trainer) - when he gets near to you don't try to grab the dummy - just give him lots of strokes around his chest and tell him how good he is whilst he is still holding the dummy. This helps with the spitting - and you can work on the hold later - I'm still at this stage Smile

Dave79 · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:56 am Post subject:

A Labrador retriever has a natural desire to retrieve, however, you need to train him to do this in the way you want him to.
At the moment, you have taught him not to come back immediately, to play with it before bringing it back and to spit it out in front of you. And from the look of it, he is doing a great job at that.
Don't worry, everybody makes mistakes and it can be corrected with a little guidance.

First of all, it might be a good thing to start from scratch. If you want you can introduce a new commando, but that is not necessary.
Don't worry about the structure too much, more important is that he goes out confidently and comes straight back confidentely. Treat him as if he was a puppy, make a fuss of him when he is comes back, don't stand up straight but bow down, ... Don't make it too difficult, but keep it interesting. The minute he hesitates coming back to you, back away a few paces, if he still hesitates, back away even more. If you want, you can even run away calling him into you as you go. From the moment he gets to you, praise him, but don't take the dummy immediately. However, also prevent him from spitting out the dummy by keeping one hand under his chin (gently stroking as praise).
Don't do this more than 2 or 3 times per session, keep him wanting more.
Outside the retrieving sessions, train him the 'hold' command. Put a toy in his mouth and let him hold it, say 'release' and take it from him. At first, you can keep your hand under his chin to prevent him from spitting it out.
When I train a dog, I always make it easy for him to succeed, hence, lot of opportunity for praise. I gradually increase difficulty so he keeps his confidence on a high level and I can praise him for doing right.
A few points to keep in mind:
-While training, make sure you are interesting enough for the dog.
-Restrict your commands to a strict minimum, don't talk to him unless really necessary. When you increase difficulty, he will need to concentrate more, when you talk too much, he will not be able to concentrate on his task.
-Less is more. A short session is better than a long one.
-Make your commands short and clear
-To start off, train alone, so you dog is only focused on you. Another dog in the neighbourhood might distract him too much (even when he does not clearly pays attention to this other dog).

Just a small remark: Although throwing a second retrieve immediately after the first has come in might increase the speed with which the retrieve is done, but can also create delivery problems. Just like a dog might spit out a dummy in anticipation to a treat, he might also spit out a dummy in anticipation of a second retrieve.

Best Regards

Dave

barney2007 · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: