how do i know if there are endorsements?

pitstops

I finally got J's papers today and when looking at the reg documnets there is a bit between her reg name and her parents names that says endorsememnts.... how do i if she has them and what they are?

rach_willibob · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:18 am Post subject:

It would say in that space... just under the endorsements header...

_LUCY_ · Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject:

If there are endorsements it will say "R - Progeny not eligible for registration and/or X - not eligible for issue of export pedigree" under the Endorsements header.

pitstops · Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject:

thank you, I guess that means we have none.... how strange.

Diana · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:37 am Post subject:

Were you expecting any?

Funnily enough just got two new reg certificates back with info missing which i know exists (hip scores etc).... so it might be worth a call to the KC to treble check its not a typing error as I have found.

Di

pitstops · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject:

Well i hadn't discused endorsements with her breeders, although i guess i just expected them to be there. I know when i breed from her I will do all the proper checks and any puppies sold will have endorsements as i do not want anyone to be irrisponible with them.

Are endorsements a relativley new thing?

Diana · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject:

They have been around about 15 years I suppose... used effectively only recently though with the advertisment of the fact you need a written disclaimer to make them stand up should the puppy buyer object.

Di

MattA99 · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject:

Pitstops,

I'm not sure about the show people (I think they use them more frequently) but its still relatively unusual for working bred pups to have endorsements.

Matt

Diana · Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject:

Matt, Can you personally think of a reason why? I totally agree with you its uncommon in working lines, and having sold to a trial home from the last litter they were very dubious and wanted it lifted post haste, but any thoughts on why it has been slow to catch on?

Di

MattA99 · Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject:

Hmmm, could get myself into trouble with this one. Wink

I think there are probably a number of reasons, some, all or none of which could apply to different breeders.

The majority of working bred litters are from a persons shooting bitch. The breeder isn't part of the 'dog scene', they just mate their bitch either to another local shooting dog or just go to the owner of a field trial stud dog advertised in the shooting mags or gundog website. The former type of stud dog owner is probably not much more knowledgeable than the breeder. The FTCh / field trial stud dog owner will in many cases be unlikely to remind the bitch owner that however much trouble they have taken over the mating there could still be reasons why some or all of the resulting progeny shouldn't be bred from. Consequently for this type of bitch owner it perhaps doesn't really occur to them that they may want to endorse the progeny - after all their bitch wasn't endorsed.

Some people that I have spoken to don't really feel that the endorsement will hold water with the KC, as they have heard 'stories' about them being overturned.

This could get me in trouble! Wink

In some cases I feel that it is due to a different attitude to the pups they have bred. They are essentially a commodity to be sold as part of the business. Endorsing the pups could devalue the pups and make them less saleable.

Even where the pups aren't being bred commercially, I think that there is a more prevalant feeling that once the pup has been sold it is then the property of the new owner, and up to them if they want to breed. Personally, i dont think it necessarily makes the pups any worse. They will generally (but not always) have been well reared, and the bloodlines will be excellent. However they may just be viewed in a slightly more detached way than by other breeders.

One reason that I have some sympathy with is that in many cases an endorsement won't make any difference to whether a bitch is bred from. I'm sure that its no coincidence that other dog registries have increased in use as endorsements have increased. There are loads of non-registered litters about, and I feel that in some cases endorsements can dissuade people from doing things properly.

The market for working-bred pups is generally (but not completely) a buyers market, and I think that generally the buyers don't really want to but an endorsed pup.

Matt