Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: sexually maturing?
Sorry, this is long:
Cooper has just turned 1 now and he is entire. The main reason for this was that we were showing him.
He has always loved all dogs; little, big, yappy, quiet, exciteable etc etc. He just loves them. So much so that he can be a bit over enthusiastic, and so Ive always kept him on lead if we see a very small dog, or an elderly dog just in case they dont appreciate my big boy in their face.
The last couple of times we have been out with doggy friends he hasnt left the girls alone for a second. An 18 month old Ridgeback bitch we know was spayed at the beginning of December, and when we met up with her at the weekend Cooper had only one thing on his mind. His dew claws really went to town on her underside so he had to go back on the lead in the end as no amoutn of "ah-ahs" or ball throwing or the other boy ridgeback we were with wanting to play could distract Cooper.
This morning we met a guy who we know from training on our walk. He has a border collie about teh same age (entire too), a little JRT and an older collie cross bitch who is a bit deaf and grumpy. The BC was trying to play with Coop but all he wanted to do was pester the poor collie x (who was not happy and was warning him off - to no avail) so i put him back on the lead.
The BC was still trying to get Cooper's attention and started growling. then they were both on their hind legs and both growling. No teeth bared, or wrinkled noses. and when I went to leave with Cooper, they both sniffed at each other with tails wagging. So I dont think it was aggression, just more squaring up???
I have also noticed that after he poos now, he will scrape the ground with his back feet. This has been a recent thing.
Could it be that he is becoming sexually mature and we are hitting a peak and he will calm down? or is he going to continue to pester the ladies and potentially not get on with other males??
I dont want him to lose his love of dogs or risk getting into a situation which may make him feel like he needs to defend himself.
Has anyone any tips on how I can deter him from pestering the girls? He really does go deaf on me no matter what goodies i have in my pocket, or squeaky toys or exciting i am
A few weeks ago we were on the beach with an 8month old lab bitch who hasnt had her 1st season yet, and also with a goldie who was entire and Cooper didnt pester her like this at all, nor was he anything but playful.
But last week he was trying to hump a 1 year old spayed staffy cross we were walking with, and then the ridgbeack this weekend who was spayed about a month or so ago.
Just not sure whether to think bout getting him done, and will taht even help.
Are you really serious about showing him, or was it just for a bit of fun? Do you show him with the intention that one day he'll be a stud dog? Just wondered really, as you can show them castrated, I believe, and it's just considered a fault or something along those lines.
I don't know why there aren't classes for castrated males, just like there are for Geldings in the horse showing world, as not every dog would make a good stud dog, nor would every owner want to stud their dog. The neutered males would still be there representing their lines though. Anyway, that's a whole other debate.
I find most of the entire boys I meet out a pain in some way, shape or form. Either they pester the girls, or they go deaf when on a scent, or they square up to other males.....Or they seem to attract other males to square up to them. So for me being kept entire just wouldn't be an option. I know you do get a lot of experienced owners who somehow manage to keep on top of their boys behaviours, but I'm more of a relaxed person than that and I don't want to have to go around asking other folk if their dogs are bitches or dogs and then avoiding certain people/situations. So unless I had an absolute angel of a lad, who no other dogs picked on, it would be Off With the Plums as soon as they were causing any problems....but that's just me.
Your Max sounds exactly the same as mine. Even down to the walking beautifully on lead until he sees another dog. Now I just have to make him sit and wait because i cant walk with him leaping in front of me.
I know the vet will say, yes get him done. It will mean the end of his showing, but to be honest, he nor I never really enjoyed it. But if he could have done well in the ring, id feel awful.
grrrrr
Like you, I suppose I dont want him to get into the habit of mounting girls, nor get the idea that he needs to defend or fight for his right (i have the song in my head now!! :$)
He humps our legs at home, which we try and discourage, but he clamps his front feet so tight its hard to get him off when he starts.
He doesnt mark in our house at all, but has attempted to raise his leg at the training school and in my parents house but we have managed to stop him on those occasions.
Jules, I think you have probably written down what I want to say or how I want to think.
Im probably not one of those experienced owners who can keep on top of behaviours like this either.
I don't know why there aren't classes for castrated males
I guess it all dates back to the days before there was such a thing as a "Hobby shower" where showing is the end rather that a means to an end. In the old days showing was the shop window of the breeder and stud dog owner, so to show a neutered dog was futile. In fact until relatively recently it was not even allowed, because it broke the part of the breed standard which called for "Two normally descended testicles"
I remember the time when the KC changed things around to allow them, but to my knowledge no castrated dog has ever become a Sh Ch. (Although a few have been neutered after becoming champions for health reasons.)
Saying this, all my males, back in the days when I kept males, were eventually neutered, usually around the 18 month mark.
Im probably not one of those experienced owners who can keep on top of behaviours like this either.
I don't think it's always about experience really. I really just couldn't be bothered with the hassle myself.
We meet a lovely lady with her two Australian Shepherd Dogs out a fair bit, both of which are entire show dogs, but she is always having to ask everyone what their dogs are and then avoid any boys, as either they have a pop or the other dogs do. She can't let them off anywhere which isn't enclosed either because of the amount of in season bitches which get walked round here. Her boys just go completely deaf when they catch that scent. They are lovely dogs and I'm sure she is more than happy to accommodate their foibles, I however, think they look like high maintenance and hard work and would have their plums off in a jiffy.
It's not just those dogs either, I meet up with a few entire boys who are lovely, but completely ignore their owners as soon as they see my "definitely not in season" girls. I gained a smashing Choccie Lab on Sunday. He looked very like Di's Deeds. He wasn't trying his luck or anything like that, but as far as he was concerned, he was definitely coming home with my girls even though his mum was calling and calling him, had a squeaky ball and tasty treats, just a few yards away. She had to come and get him in the end, as his Plums seems to have got stuck in his ears.
I'd personally leave the entire boys for those who really need them entire, unless of course the boy was a very nervous sort, as losing their testosterone can make nervy lads worse.
In the old days showing was the shop window of the breeder and stud dog owner, so to show a neutered dog was futile.
I thought that was probably the case. I would imagine back in the Days of Yore when showing first started, probably the only people showing and breeding pedigree dogs were those born with a silver spoon in their mouths, whereas now it can be a hobby for just about everyone. Not everyone wants to breed though, so to me it's outdated to almost insist on the dogs still being entire.
I do believe entire boys tend to look slightly more "Manly" than castrated one's though, just like there is a very distinct difference between Geldings and Stallions. Maybe a third class needs to be added, whereby the Castrated boys can be judged against one another, rather than in the same class as the Entire, just like they do with horses. This would open up a whole new world to those with castrated boys who think they either can't show, or know they have no chance of getting anywhere if they do.
Leo my entire GSP will be a year old on the 12th and we are having a similar experience to you with Cooper!! It is very wearing and I'm thinking now I will get him done after his birthday rather than waiting until he's 18 months.
I have to say I agree with Jules about finding most uncastrated males I meet out a pain in some way..either pestering, posturing etc. Hence the fact I don't want Leo to be a pest to others and people do get annoyed if their bitch has a male following nose glued to bottom and the male won't take no for an answer........
I thought that was probably the case. I would imagine back in the Days of Yore when showing first started
Jules Jules Jules! Even I was not around when showing first started!
But yes, almost no one except the rich could afford a pedigree dog. All my mother's when she was a girl were results of opportunist dogs and farm bitches. No ordinary person showed because few people had transport to get to a show, meaning often that it was a two or three day thing, public transport, hotel over night, show, then public transport back home. It was only with the advent of the motor car for the masses, late 1950's early 1960's that hobby showing started.
But even keeping ANY dog was not easy. In 1900, before my mother was born, her older sister developed Scarlet Fever and isolation was the name of the game. No Isolation hospitals in those days so they had to stay at home, and to prevent the spread of the disease their dog had to be destroyed!
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