This is how extruded dog/cat food is made - the process is the same regardless of brand! This is from a Discovery program so no pro's or con's just the actual process.
A quick internet search and you'll notice that a pet food extruding machine is relatively cheap ($10.000 from China) especially as the same machine will do anything from cat and dog food to fish food - the process is the same but the formulas/mixtures varies.
Dare I say that once you put any raw materials through such a process, does the individual quality of the raw materials really matter? After being steamed cooked at very high temperature everything is killed off hence why fat, vitamins and minerals are added afterwards in spray form.
My own lot here are often changing their feed - they're fed the 'dull' extruded kibble, then 1-2 a week they're getting whatever my local butcher want's to get rid off (can't be squeamishness here) and then a local pet food store very often have some of the 'top brand/higher quality' dog feeds for less than 1/2 price as they've short dated so I get £50 bags for around £20 - they have no problems what so ever! My pups are weaned and fed on Nature Diet but when they're about 6 weeks old I will normally add some dry feed to get them used to that as most puppy buyers still 'lean' towards feeding dry food.
Natasha
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WLF All the Way!!!!
"Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can´t eat it or hump it. **** on it and walk away..."
I don’t think dog food is simply poisonous nor that raw or cooked other food is necessarily better after all we have no idea what the animals were fed on the farms and if they were pumped full of antibiotics in some intensive farming process or transported halfway across the country once they had become meat its not like the old days where people like my Gran who lived in Yorkshire knew the farmer and the butcher and the meat really was fresh in fact she’d probably walked past it in the fields! Not all commercial foods are nice either as those articles and programmes show so yes its a proper minefield.
I don’t think that BARF is the only way to go our dogs have been evolving for a long time and they are not wolves just like we’re not apes and frankly I wouldn’t thank you if I was only allowed to eat fruit and bamboo and live in trees just because at some point in history my ancestors did. I think we also need to remember that in some cases raw meat is not appropriate because of the bugs it can carry for anyone who has lowered immunity (as I do so I know I’m biased), anyone old or very young babies this can be dangerous even if the dog is perfectly fine and the household food hygiene is good – it is something that needs considering if you’re going down that route.
I do wonder whether part of the issue with commercial foods is that they are concentrated – often we are told dogs must be changed onto the food slowly, don’t give too much, soak it first, give in small portions – why is this necessary, no one tells you to change over slowly if they’re moving onto say fish and potato or chicken and rice when they’ve been ill, no in that case they get swapped straight onto it so the argument that quick changes cause tummy ache for dogs because their body isn’t used to that protein or carb would don’t apply how could that be it makes no sense, if it were true then swapping onto the rice and chicken or fish and potato suddenly would be a problem too and its not, how many times have you done that with yours and they got better quickly. My personal theory is that dog food is concentrated like those medical drinks they give cancer patients in hospital. Those drinks are vile despite being ‘strawberry milkshake’ flavour or ‘tangy apple juice’ no way they don’t taste anything like and they get very boring if that’s all you can have they also can make you feel really sick especially if you don’t have them slowly as they’re concentrated so that patients get all the nutrition they need in a small portion – does that sound familiar – to me that sounds just like dog food, concentrated, small portion, flavoured but still providing everything you need though you might get awfully fed up of it – well anyway the reason those drinks can make you feel so ill is they have high osmolarity (concentrated not much water) and this means they draw the water from your cells inside the stomach which then swells more and obviously reduces the water in the cells at the same time (I will avoid the detail in case you fall asleep at this point) – doesn’t this sound like dry dog food – think about when you’ve put water on it and seen it swell up – is that why dog food can make dogs feel uncomfortable and some dogs can’t tolerate it except in small portions – I think it could be. Certain additives could make this even worse. Just something I wonder about might be complete nonsense!
SO ANYWAY - I do agree with all of you who are saying a bit of variety is a good thing. I wasn’t confident enough before LF and was taken in by marketing and books that suggested you give your dog the complete food and nothing else at all. Well I don’t think that many people actually stick to that anyway most seem to use different things for treats and filling kongs and so on. Even my boy with his IBD issues is actually better with a bit of variety so long as I’m careful he doesn’t get things he’s allergic to – it would probably be frowned on but whilst extra kibble (even hypoallergenic ones and ones he can tolerate) causes flare ups for him he can and does eat extras of other things without any problem at all he loves cooked white fish, mashed potato, honey, Weetabix and his all time favourite white bread! He certainly enjoys the variety more and works harder at training if I have a mixed selection of treats and he doesn’t know what he’ll get next! I’ve read and heard lots about how dogs can’t have grains and wheat is terrible but it doesn’t affect my boy at all unlike chicken or lamb which make him very sick so I think we do need to find what works for the particular dog and not what we’re told is for the best. I do also wonder if these statistics quoted by researchers, owners, vets, marketing people and others for and against all arguments on what is for the best, are skewed by numbers involved, funding, researcher bias, personal opinion and the fact that more research is being done and other things such as veterinary medicines are now more effective and or more freely available maybe it is any combination of those and not the food that was affecting the length and quality of life of the dogs.
It’s impossible to know the answer but then there are very few absolute truths in anything in life we just have to go with what seems best given the information we have to hand at the time and be prepared to change if it turns out that we got it wrong!
often we are told dogs must be changed onto the food slowly, don’t give too much, soak it first, give in small portions – why is this necessary,
I don't really know why this is necessary, unless the dog has never been fed anything else before, so it's stomach simply isn't used to having to digest other ingredients.
I can give my dogs a bowl of any type of kibble and it never has any ill effects. But then I've chopped and changed foods since they were pups and always at the drop of a hat, so maybe their stomachs are just used to having to cope with whatever is thrown into them. I guess if they get a bit of a runny bum for a day as a pup, I don't really worry, after all I didn't introduced food slowly to my toddlers and if they got the runs, then so bit it and their stomachs hardened up pretty quickly.
I do think too many people worry the moment their pup has an extra poo or two one day or gets a bit "loose", then they avoid the food they think caused it and this of course only makes the problem worse. Dogs will eat all manner of rubbish, especially while they are young, so common sense tells you they are occasionally going to have an upset tum, but the more things they get exposed to, the less things will upset them.
Also true food allergies aren't unheard of but they are rare and usually cause a number of symptoms, such as ear infections and itchy skin and not just loose poos. Yet time and again I hear people saying their dog is Allergic to certain foods, when what they mean is their dog hasn't a tolerance of it YET.
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I do also wonder if these statistics quoted by researchers, owners, vets, marketing people and others for and against all arguments on what is for the best, are skewed
Oh gosh, yes. For every argument and counter argument, there is a statistic to back it up. I worked in Financial Statistics for 5 years and so I know just how much Manipulating and Guestimating goes on. As someone once said to me "80% of all statistics are made up", which is an irony in itself.
I read various things for and against all arguments, weight them up in my mind, sort out what makes sense to me and then go with what I believe, not what I'm TOLD to believe. But then I'm a Cynic to the Core.
after all we have no idea what the animals were fed on the farms and if they were pumped full of antibiotics in some intensive farming process
To true! Jam with use by dates when in the old days we made surplus fruit into jam to preserve it!
But we are told modern dog food is far better than in the days gone by. But how? Where does the improvement show? Certainly not in longer lives! Healthier dogs? But there seems more skin problems and allergies than ever before! So where are they better? Convenient, yes. Good for the manufacturers, certainly. But better for the dogs, I cant see where. Yes, we have to feed our dogs on something and a dog food makes a good base point. But dont believe all the hype, and dont think you cannot add a little variety into the diet.
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I’ve read and heard lots about how dogs can’t have grains and wheat is terrible but it doesn’t affect my boy at all
As I've said before, dogs are opportunist feeders. Yes I can accept they dont get as much food value from grain, but in general it wont do them any harm, in the same way we are told milk is bad for dogs, but for hundreds of years it was normal to give puppies milk! All of mine were, and still are given A LITTLE milk. Amy loves a cup of milky tea, as all my others have.
But as in all things, common sense. You would not feed yourself on mushrooms if they made you bad so you would not give your dog milk if it made it bad.
My children get given a fromage frais or yogurt in their free school meal every day...they don't eat them so the dogs get one each when the children get home, they also eat the fruit as the children don't like the schools fruit!! Free school meals for dogs......
free school meals for dogs - yuk no I reckon even the dogs would turn up their noses at some of the things you see on school menus apparently meat is too expensive so they're going to use a protein substitute...
Sam unfortunately is allergic to quite a few things and goes the whole nine yards with chronic itching, ear infection, vomitting, diarrhoea and more but not to everything so that's good and I'm working on building up to him tolerating other things so hopefully that'll work out. I'm glad you folk are about you give me hope and encouragement.
I agree with you both (Jules and John), wise words indeed.
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