Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:08 pm Post subject: Would she be good at gundog work?
I know this sounds silly but I thought I would ask. Indi has always been true to nature and been a good retriever. She will let you throw a toy/dummy for her.She run after it even if you fake throw she knows or if you pretend to throw it one way and actually throw it another she`ll know. Then she`ll bring it back to you place it at your feet and sit and wait. Now I know labs love to retrieve but it got me thinking would she be good at gun dog work, she isnt great at agility as she is scared of heights but retrieving she could do all day!! Today she had her konga wubba thing she got for christmas. She would sit by me, let me throw it, I would tell her "go" she would wait and retrieve when told and bring it back to me, drop it at my feet and then i would say "round" she would walk round me to sit on my left hand side. Do you think she has the making of a gun dog. Now I have no clue about gun dog work and when she should have started training but she seems to have it in her. I know her blood lines are mainly SH CH but there are FT CH. She loves to retrieve and seems really into throwing and retrieving at the min. What do you guys think? I would need to find a gun dog trainer out here but im sure there will be one somewhere. What do you think? Do you think she is being a typical lab or does she have the makings of something?
It may be worth a go hayley, I believe the dog needs to ddeliver to hand rather than at yoor feet though, but I reckon Indi is smart enough to pick that up pretty quickly.
Give it a go, its the only way you`ll find out for sure
If I put out my hand and said "give" she would give it to me in my hand if I asked her to. If she also drops it away from me I can tell her to pick it up and bring it back. We are at the very very beginning but she does show promising signs I think of being good at it! She loves to be mentally challenged at retrieving things. Loves her hide and seek games with food and quick to use her nose and sight to find things.
Definitely give it a go. You'll both love it and before you know it you'll be hooked! Your dog sounds a lot like Bracken, who isn't working bred. She lived to retrieve her ball (and she has a wubba too), and I thought exactly the same as you. It was hard hard work because I'd taught her to drop and she wasn't steady and she was excitable and whiny and I didn't know what I was doing..... but we all start somewhere and now Bracks and I pick up together at a little shoot and both love the journey we're on. Getting started is the hardest part, but once you do and people get to see you are serious about it and willing to learn they will help you no-end.
A lot of it isn't actually about the retrieving though, but about the steadiness and the control. The less retrieves the better - do lots of throwing around her, over her, and pick everything up yourself.
JohnW's book and the gundog club training books/manuals are great. I'm sure there would be a local club to you who do group classes and could recommend someone for some 1:1 lessons too.
Definitely give it a go. You'll both love it and before you know it you'll be hooked! Your dog sounds a lot like Bracken, who isn't working bred. She lived to retrieve her ball (and she has a wubba too), and I thought exactly the same as you. It was hard hard work because I'd taught her to drop and she wasn't steady and she was excitable and whiny and I didn't know what I was doing..... but we all start somewhere and now Bracks and I pick up together at a little shoot and both love the journey we're on. Getting started is the hardest part, but once you do and people get to see you are serious about it and willing to learn they will help you no-end.
A lot of it isn't actually about the retrieving though, but about the steadiness and the control. The less retrieves the better - do lots of throwing around her, over her, and pick everything up yourself.
To start with she is quite jumpy and flighty she wants to go after it straight away but once she settles into the routine she will wait until i tell her "go". Like you said they have to start somewhere and she enjoys the mental challenge of tasks.
Moj wrote:
JohnW's book and the gundog club training books/manuals are great. I'm sure there would be a local club to you who do group classes and could recommend someone for some 1:1 lessons too.
Could you possibly tell me where I can find these books etc and any other useful books i could read to help me get started?!
Go for it! There is only you holding yourself back.
You'll have great fun, at whatever level you get to.
Another book that is nice, although may be out of print as it is rather old fashioned, is Susan Scales "Retriever Training". It gives you a full progression from puppy to adult training. Obviously your dog is older now, but it is good to read how she approaches training from the outset.
You'll need to start introducing the whistle for stops, recalls etc, and make sure your heelwork is absolutely spot on too.
Mo's advice about doing more steadiness than retrieves is also VERY important.
what sort of whistle does it need to be? I know it sounds stupid or is it just a normal whistle?
Any advice on training steadiness would be appreciated. Like i said the first few times she will frantically run off after it - should i maybe put her on the lead and stand on it so she cant run off or hold her by the collar until i let go and give her the command - she complete beginner here so i have no clue how to go about it. After a few frantic retrieves and she gets into the I know what to expect phase of it she does sit until i say "go." Before that its more play like. Another stupid question - are you allowed to use treats etc or is it purely whistles etc? She use to be clicker trained and responded well to that. But in true lab fashion she is a very food orientated dog!
She is good with her listening to commands from a distance. So when she is away from me and i have her in a lie i can get her to a sit or if she stands to move i tell her to sit and she will from a good 5-10m away from her.
Her heel work is spot on. She has always been good at it. We need to work on the heel and not soddin off into the elu but if i have a treat in my hand she will stick perfectly to heel until she gets it. She has a proper posh show trot!!!
Like i said i didnt know if i was too late to teach her seeing as she is nearly 2 but she has only just really calmed down properly as she was a manic puppy and that sort of thing she would have had us kicked out in the first week! Complete beginner and have no clue about how to go about it all
I work 27 dogs with my work and pretty much any lab will retrieve. You just have to make certain that when a team of guns are shooting the dog does not run in as soon as it sees a bird and of course you have to be able to send it. Throwing a ball they see as a game but if you buy a dummy and hide it somewhere they need to be able to hunt to signals. All good fun to train but takes a bit of time. Not sure where you are but there will be a shoot somewhere near and you will be able to see. Any help I can offer I would love to.
I love it that there's someone else keen to give it a go, brilliant
I have the Susan Scales book that Laura mentions. I'm not sure I want to part with it for good, but I'd be happy to lend it to you and you could see if it's one you want to try and get your own copy of?
Have a look on The Gundog Club's website. You can buy their training books/guides from there. I'm not sure of a source for John's book, but if you drop him a PM I'm sure he'd let you know where you can purchase it. I think it's through one of the lab clubs.
I'm not the best person to give any training tips/advice because I'm still very much learning myself. On the steadiness thing though, do you have a stooge that could help? If you walk dog out at heel, sit her, walk on a few paces and drop (not throw) an item for her retrieve, then walk her back at heel to the start, would she run in do you think? Could you have someone at the retrieve end who could beat her to it and pick it up before she gets there? The key is for them never to get the reward of the retrieve if they move before sent. Or, sit her up and you walk away from her and drop the item behind you over your shoulder so that you can get to it before she does if she moves. If she doesn't move, great, go back to her and tell her she's clever. Then you go and pick it up by hand and go back to her again and tell her she's still clever
Most retriever people seem to use a 211.5 Acme whistle that you can get from any gundoggy website. Have a look at Hi Lost, Quest, Sporting Saint, Black Gundog, erm what else, Turner Richards..... there's lots.... don't go mad buying all the gear. You only really need a couple of dummies, a small bag, a whistle and a slip lead and you're away
I work 27 dogs with my work and pretty much any lab will retrieve. You just have to make certain that when a team of guns are shooting the dog does not run in as soon as it sees a bird and of course you have to be able to send it. Throwing a ball they see as a game but if you buy a dummy and hide it somewhere they need to be able to hunt to signals. All good fun to train but takes a bit of time. Not sure where you are but there will be a shoot somewhere near and you will be able to see. Any help I can offer I would love to.
Like i said we are at the very beginning and this is me trying to work out what i need to do to get started properly. She is great at hunting and i dont thinks he would run if she saw a bird or what not fall - she never has been taught to chase animals.
Im not expecting miracles that we can do is straight off just enquiring how to get into basic training of it to teach the steadiness as she does have it in her as she will wait if needs be. Ive seen it already in her today. We have just had the hunting season here where the guys where out with their labs and springers flushing and retrieving. I stood and watched them for hours. Its not so much the actual hunt right now its more of for Indi's mental stimulation as she has something there we could hone for a while then maybe one day she will be good enough for a shoot. In the meantime im happy to stick to training classes etc with her until an expert thinks she is ready. No way would i go out now on a hunt and expect her to have it to a tea because miracles dont happen over night this is going to be something we maybe hone for the next 2-3 years.
Moj wrote:
I'm not the best person to give any training tips/advice because I'm still very much learning myself. On the steadiness thing though, do you have a stooge that could help? If you walk dog out at heel, sit her, walk on a few paces and drop (not throw) an item for her retrieve, then walk her back at heel to the start, would she run in do you think? Could you have someone at the retrieve end who could beat her to it and pick it up before she gets there? The key is for them never to get the reward of the retrieve if they move before sent. Or, sit her up and you walk away from her and drop the item behind you over your shoulder so that you can get to it before she does if she moves. If she doesn't move, great, go back to her and tell her she's clever. Then you go and pick it up by hand and go back to her again and tell her she's still clever
will have to try that - Adam goes to afghan soon so i will probably have to do the second one with her as i`ll be on my own! Will go and look in the german shops to try and find a proper dummy maybe!
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