Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:17 pm Post subject: Food - considering a change, but confused as ever
Hi, a recent thread has got me thinking about food (again ) and wondered if I could sound you all out.
We feed Max at one year old on Wainwrights salmon & potato. He is a big lad but definitely not fat, weights 32kg, but we can feel his last couple of ribs easily, has a waist, and he looks in good condition - coat shiney, not bouncing off the walls with too much energy.
This is all good, but we feed him 230g x 2 am/pm, and 30g snack at lunchtime when he spends a couple of hours in his crate, so including treats he is on about 500g total a day. Wainwright's guidelines are about 450-500g a day for his current size.
He does 3 decent size poops a day.
Everthing I read before when we changed him to this food at 8 months sounded as though 450-500g a day was way more than you all feed, irrespective of food manufacturer. But I suppose I'm nervous about dropping food volume as I don't want him to lose condition when he seems spot on now.
Soooo, I'm thinking:
1. If it ain't broke don't fix it
2. Perhaps if we changed to a "better quality" food eg, orijen, would he need less and have more of what he needs without the volume?
3. If we did that, would the fact that orijen is 80/20 split meat/veg&fruit mean it is higher protein and risk making him livelier?
Sorry if that is a bit of a random collection of confused thoughts - he is fine now, but I want to do the best I can for him, and I'm also not sure if a bag of Wainwright's a month is a false economy if we could feed him a "better quality" food that would cost more, but feed less of it?
Welcome any thoughts, especially if anyone has changed onto orijen,
Thanks
Perhaps if we changed to a "better quality" food eg, orijen, would he need less and have more of what he needs without the volume?
Ok...My thoughts. You have a Labrador, not a fussy, picky eater and as such they need bulk to fill them up. I don't think he'd feel full on smaller rations, regardless of whether it met his needs or not. And hungry Labradors tend to snack on other, often unsavoury, things. So unless there was another issue going on with this food, I'd not switch to one where you have to feed him less.
As regards to protein, I don't think it contributes to excess (hyper) energy at all. I think that's a bit of a myth. Hyper dogs are usually hyper because of the colourings added to certain foods, or the sugars or fast burning carbs, such as in rice or potato. Protein is generally slow burning. I know from doing the Atkins Diet a few years ago (a never to be repeated exercise) I had hardly any energy at all, even though I was filling up with virtually all protein.
I would personally not change a thing but the only thing I am surprised at is 450 to 500g. Maybe that's just Wainwrights though. Lottie has 240g of Arden Grange and weighs 25kg. (I feed under the recommended to allow for a few treats and some veg and fruit) I've looked at Orijen so many times but I just can't justify £55 for 13.5kg when I spend £34 for 15kg. If I earned more I'd definitely feed it.
Is 3 poos a day normal...I'm not sure about others..Lottie does 2
I was looking last night at Orijen for Lottie's size,the feeding guide is about the same as AG so my food bill would be a lot more. I guess you need to do a gram by gram comparison for Max.
Isn't it the most confusing thing in the world...I think I'll stick with AG. As you say 'if it ain't broke' and all that.
I'd say if it ain't broke, don't worry about fixing it. He sounds like he's doing well and in good condition. As he is still a youngster And growing at the moment, you'll probably find that in the coming year you'll drop his food volume anyway.
I swapped to orijen as one of mine was loosing condition and then we had a bib of a health scare with him so we switched.
As jukes says the higher protein thingy is a bit of a myth. If you want a bit of reading there is a document on the orijen site that explains about proteins etc
____________ Sam, Coal & Finn
It�s never too late to be what you might have been
All photographs remain copyrighted to me with al
TBH as he sounds fine I would leave things as they are. Sometimes you can change to a food which you think sounds better but it doesn't work for your dog and you can end up causing yourself alot of hassle along with wasting money!!
I would second what Jules said about Labrador's needing full tummies - all of mine get Burns for their dinner as the kibble is lighter and they get a jolly big bowlful of food as a result. They all then sleep well and over the holidays haven't been getting their breakfast until 9.30 am but are still content even my walking dustbin German Pointer!!
My GSP was on raw for a few months but seemed hungry despite being fed to the puppy guidelines with extra. He was a nightmare by 11am, he would start whining for his lunch and he would whine for his breakfast too. I've since found out that a raw meal passes through the system in 4-5 hours so thats probably why it didn't fill him up for long. He is a much more contented dog now I've got him on a kibble that suits him. Keeps him full for longer and he doesn't scavenge so much on walks. Every dog is individual and its just about getting it right for each dog.
With regards protein = hyper, I too don't agree with that and feel its often other ingredients in the food. For instance all mine are better on a brown rice based diet than one that is white rice. Arden Grange made my two Labs too OTT-there are a range of ingredients in that so don't know what it was about that feed particularly but something in it made them over full of energy!!
After reading what I presume is the same thread I did also contemplate a change of food especially after the food we are feeding, Skinners, got a few reviews saying dogs were losing condition BUT then I looked at both dogs and thought why? both eat the food no problem both are of a good weight (one possibly a little skinny but he's still growing so I'm not too bothered atm) and both have good coats, Theo always gets comments on how shiny his coat is.
I looked at alternatives and couldn't believe how expensive some of what are classed 'the better' foods are! Then throw in the added difficulty of Theo not being able to tolerate chicken based food and it all becomes majorly confusing.
I concluded if it ain't broke why fix it and will leave the boys eating as they as long as they are happy.
Theo is 32kg and Digger 30kg and they both eat around 400g of skinners a day purely as meals. Any extra food they get (in kongs or leftovers etc) I don't include as they aren't dogs we struggle to keep weight off so they are probably eating roughly the 450g on average, so similar to your dog. I don't know how that relates to the guidelines as I don't look I tend to feed by eye. But neither scavenge excessively (or at all in Theo's case) and they don't tend to nag for their dinner they just eat it when it's given.
I really do think one of the worst things you can google on the internet is "best dog food".....
Do so and you are sure to spend the hours afterwards trawling the net in search of the ideal product, reading numerous discussions on various forums, riddled with guilt that what you are currently feeding is not good enough...In the end you end up with a banging headache and half eaten bags of food in the cupboard that either gave your dog chronic wind, whippy poos or brought him or her out in spots
3 poos a day is quite a lot and I think it is a result of the quantity going in. But as Jules says, would he still be happy if you gave him a smaller quantity of something else? On Burns and many of the other "better" brands he should only be given about 320g per day which is a significant reduction in his current quantity.
To work out the cost of a particular food you need to do the following calculation:
Sack size divided by daily amount = no of days
then
Sack cost divided by no of days = cost per day
eg. 15000g/500g = 30 days
£45/30 = £1.50 per day
or 15000g/300g = 50 days
£50/50 = £1 per day
I think Orijen is about £55 for a 13.5kg bag but you would feed around 300g?
so 13500g/300g = 45 days
£55/45 = £1.22 per day
I don't think Orijen would cost you any more than Wainwrights, it would just depend if Max would be satisfied on smaller quantities. Perhaps a long change over period would help.
I worked out that to switch both dogs to orijen it would cost me an extra 50p per day (25p per dog) if this means I buy one less coffee a week or loose the crisps at lunch or make my lunches at home not buy them.... Then that's what I'd do as my dogs only get what I put in their bowls. I understand people have diff budgets etc but that's just pointing out the way I thought about it
____________ Sam, Coal & Finn
It�s never too late to be what you might have been
All photographs remain copyrighted to me with al
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) and wondered if I could sound you all out.
