Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:08 pm Post subject: 2 1/2 yr old Black Lab just not settling!!!`
Hi all
We have a 2 1/2 year old black Labrador who has had behavioral problems since a puppy and even though he is slowly getting better I am reaching the end of my tether and reluctantly thinking of giving him up though would hate myself for doing so.
Anyway here is a short summary of our situation:-
- Our lab is incredibly friendly as all labs are but is a very large lab (nearly 40 kilos) and even though he is not over-fed (tbh been slightly under feeding him for last yr) and we never give him food or treats he is not losing weight.
- He is walked every morning for between 40mins and an hour, and during that time I do a lot of retrieval and he is brilliant, coming back, dropping the ball and sitting attentively. Has 2 or 3 shorter walks in day but on the lead, can only do 1 long walk as house-husband looking after baby so can't leave her.
- Indoors he is generally ok, gets very excited when people come round depending who it is (wont leave my dad alone, my mum he is fine with and settles quickly)
- Outdoors when he is just with me he is 'generally' ok, comes when calls, never runs off and retrieves wells as I mentioned earlier.
Now the problem I have is when I meet someone or another dog either off or on the lead. When on the lead if anyone talks to me he constantly pulls, tries jumping up, completely ignores me and I have to drag him away. Off the lead though he is a nightmare in that he jumps up at people, totally ignores me, will not come back and in 1 particular field even if no-one is around he just ignores me and plays and is a pain.
It has got to the point that most people now go the other way if I see them, and just this morning some woman shouted at me that I have never had control of my dog and I could not disagree. This is really upsetting me and the logical part of me says to give him up but he is so good indoors with the family, the little un (19 month old girl) sits on him, gives him her toys and he ignores it all. He never scrounges, we have taken food off him which he found and he even drops food when you tell him if little un gives it to him .... very un-labrador like I know!!!
I have been told to change his food (currently on Chudleys Lite to try and drop his weight down) but all the recommended ones are well out of our price range as we are a low income family, could stretch to about £25 for a 15 kilo bag so if anyone could suggest a good brand I'd order it in if necessary.
His behavior is slightly better than it was so I know an element of it is down to maturity, just other dogs of his age are not, and have not been, a problem like this. Also with regards to his weight I have reduced his food to about 380gms a day and giving him carrot slices (no more than 5 a day) as treats when walking to reinforce positive behavior, both on the vets advice but thats only in the last couple of weeks so might still start reducing his weight.
Really need some help as getting to the point where I am going to have to start keeping him on the lead to give me some peace but then he wont get the exercise he needs. I have in the past used an extendable lead for a while but yet again he doesn't get the exercise.
Well I probably can't give you advice for everything, but I switched to Skinners dog food a few months back for both of my dogs. Indy has 15kg bags of food, usually turkey and rice or salmon and rice. I think the cost per bag is around £23 from Vet Uk's website. It costs more in the shops around me, but delivery is free. Indy has lost 8 kilos in the past year from changing to Hills Science Plan light for large breeds, and then to Skinners (to save money as the Hills was more expensive).
Are you following the feeding guidelines on his food though? Since I've become more knowledgeable about dogs and their weight I find that most of them are too generous.
I think if you are having problems calling him back, it would be worth bringing out some more tasty treats for his walks. Liver is very cheap to buy, and I often boil it and then cook it for a good few hours on the minimum heat in my oven to dry it out. Then you can break it into tiny bits and use it for rewards. I have one dog who at times has very selective hearing. We call him a 'show me the money dog'. If he knows I have something super tasty in my pocket, he's 10 times more likely to respond to me when I call him.
It sounds like on the whole you have a super dog, so I hope you can get through this.
I am sure there will be some one along to offer you some advice I have no experience of Chudleys but please don't give up on your Dog I can tell by your post you love him very much.
Cheryl
Sorry cross post
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Max my shadow
Luther 1994-2008 I will see you at the bridge sweetie
One life Live it
It does sound like you have a lovely dog but maybe has not been taught the meet and greet senario and the settle command both of which is sortable
If you can find a good trainer they will be able to help you with this and once the basics are in then life gets alot easier.
Personally if your dog is strong then I would use a Gencon as it eaier to have control but that is my personal preferance, it helps with the quick fix for the meet and greet until you have finalised the meet and greet training.
In the house it should be a no touch , talk or eye contact so that he does not get the attention that he is craving and I would do a send to bed and reward with a filled kong in the bed when guests arrive to break the routien of behaviour that your dog has adopted.
Weight wise well I am a mean mum and I put the food out and then take a handful back out and that seems to do the biz but other people find this more problematic so I may not have the answer to that .
Really hope this little bit of info helps and there are many really good trainers on here that may be able to offer alternative strategies if this is not quite the answer that your looking for.
Have you taken him along to any training classes - these could help immensely if you find a good trainer to help either in a group or 1:1 session. Try checking http://www.apdt.co.uk/local_dog_trainers.asp for a trainer near you.
Food wise - I have 2 'little labs' both under 25kg - if I fed them the recommended amount on the packet of food (Skinners Salmon) they'd be eating double the amount of food per day. That would be double the amount of energy they'd be trying to burn off and weight gain when they didn't manage to burn it off. When my older girl needed to rest after her op I fed her even less and she was happy resting and managed to gain a bit of weight still! So don't feel that you have to feed what is on the packet especially with a dog needing to lose weight!
Both of mine can be jumpers - I've found that offlead if Luna has something in her mouth she is less likely to jump up and more likely to waggle dance around a person or spit the toy on their feet to throw!
Please don't give up on your boy before getting some training help with him - he sounds lovely and nothing unusual in a friendly lab!
Hi,
i think your best bet is a good training class, is he neuted ? if not i'd get him done, i had a lab feed on Chudleys for 10 years , i don't think its about food, he's picked up some habits from a puppy jumping up etc,,, and they just need to be put right, its finding something that keeps his attention on you and not on others on and off the lead , you need someone to show you how to stop it and give you the confidence back with him to be his leader, try to stay positive they are just like kids , it can be put right but you do need the time and commitment to it , you are obviously trying , try a training class , go back to basics with him.
As others have covered ideas for food and Skinners is used by a lot of people on the forum with good reviews, regarding his weight has the vet commented on him being over weight, can you feel his ribs, the general opinion is they should have a covering similar to a blanket so you can feel the ribs, rather than a duvet, that is the sort of test most do to establish if they are over weight.
From your post Murphy does sound like a pretty normal lab just a bit exuberant when meeting people, and a lot of us could probably admit to their dogs getting excited when somone comes in, have you tried asking people to ignore him until he has his 4 paws on the floor, then reward with a stroke, if that does'nt work then a gate between him and visitors till he calms down. I do think that some people do have a knack of exciting dogs, as you say in the case of your mum he is fine but with your dad he go's over the top, what does she do that is different.
When you are out and on your own he is good and takes notice of you, but he plays up and gets excited when others are about, and when you are walking on lead.
Firstly when on lead and you see someone coming with a dog on lead, have you tried stopping and asking him to sit and look at you, before they get near, keeping him focused on you [treat in hand], when they go by reward and good boy, then calmly walk on, I have found this helped a lot when pup was small and we carry on with it now especially if pavement is narrow, I think as Murphy is 2 1/2 I would try it with people walking alone, with pushchairs and with dogs just make it part of the routine, if they stop to talk keep it brief to start and reward if he has stayed calm, if he starts to get jumpy tell him a firm no and sit, keeping lead short, relaxing it when he is quiet.
As you said he has had behavioural problems since a pup you may well have tried all that, if you have then maybe a 1 to 1 with a trainer will help you with ideas and a plan to get him to start listening and focusing on you.
The off lead play time, I always feel it should be just that, if you take him to areas where the dogs play together and owners are happy to put up with the hoolying then I would think he would by now have learnt his manners, if he jumps at people is there a reason, like they have treats in pockets or a ball ready to throw, as this seems to be the thing that some of the dogs do on my off lead walks, I try to keep ball and chucker handy and mostly the dogs all join in for the chase, the ones that don't and just want to have attention by jumping up are told firmly to get off or down, then treated for doing it, otherwise ignored.
One other thing, I do think the norty ones we meet are usually the ones that don't get to play as a group very much, but improve immensly when they get the chance to join in more often, they tell each other off if they go over the top, and soon learn how to behave and have a really good time.
I hope you manage to sort out his foibles, he does sound like a lovely boy. and it is'nt too late to try some classes again to re instill some of the things he may have forgotten.
I see you are in Sussex ifyou are anywhere near Chichester I can recommend Sussex County Dog Training if you want to get some help. They are APDT qualified and specialise in helping with issues.
Wow, thought I'd check in this morning and thats a lot of positive responses!!! To be honest even just the reassurance of people saying he will settles helps as you get tunnel vision and can only see the problems.
I will try and respond to whats been said but if I miss something or someone I apologise.
Ok, lets go:-
- He was neutered about a year ago but can't really say if thats made any difference.
- I did take him to training when he was a puppy which is where his reputation started. He always was the most 'enthusiastic' in the group so these issues have been from the start but he did pick up sitting etc just never did manage to stop the jumping up.
- I will take the advice and try Skinners, have checked and they do it at my local pet food store.
As for training, there is someone local who does both group and one-to-one. The group is hard to get into and unfortunately we cannot afford the one-to-one at the moment but I will keep trying to get into the group.
As for the playing with others, unfortunately the main 'group' he played with has a 4 year old lab which he had no problems with for the last 2 year but they have recently bought a puppy and the 4 year old has gotten very protective and goes for my dog, and several others, if they come close. Problem also is I am in village and the dog walkers are very close, and as a recent arrivee to the scene and with a dog who jumps up I tend to get shunned in favour of the other lab so am restricted as to how much socialising he can do.
Did remember 1 thing which don't know if is key or not, whenever my lab meets a new dog of whatever breed or size by default he always submits and lays flat on his stomach or rolls over. He has done it to Jack Russells and others small dogs so I know there isn't an aggressive bone in his body which makes the jumping up even more confusing.
For now I am going to keep clear of the 'trouble field' where I have most of the problems and just try and keep him occupied. Hopefully the reduced food will kick in with his weight soon but will definately try some of the techniques for jumping up indoors.
Thanks alot, sure I will keep you all posted and maybe even upload a pic of him
The rolling around on the floor behaviour sounds just like my Luna!
We have Get Togethers organised through the forum that subscribed members can see the details of - it sounds like your boy would love to go on one of those and you would be able to relax more knowing that we all understand!
I arm visitors to the house with toys in their hands to hold low as they enter a room with my excitable two. They tend to take the present and waggle around then rather than jump. Luna has been trained to 'get toy' as someone enters a room unexpectantly too, working on Tucker!
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