Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: Newly diagnosed Diabetic Lab- V.Confused about diet-help!!
Hi there
Am brand new to this site or any kind of online forum, but need some help! My 10 year old (?approx-rescue) lab Homer has just been diagnosed with diabetes and has started insulin therapy. He was a big dog when i got him (60kg) and has remained 55kg ish no matter what i did. He has lost 7kg in as many weeks. Vet wants to keep weight stable whilst managing diabetes and trying to get insulin dose right which will take some time. His back legs seem a lot weaker, he can only tolerate short walks and can barely get him in car now. His diet before was a bit weird as he demanded food through the night and so was fed odd anounts and times. This has now more or less stopped since he hasn't felt so good, so am trying to get a regular morning and evening mealtime regime back in place. My problem is, and i know this may sound stupid, i really don't know how much i should be feeding him or on what or how often. Also needs to be suitable for a diabetic dog. He is losing weight rapidly. Money is a big factor at the moment with all the vet bills. He doesn't like dry food, so have been using small amount of mixer with wainwrights or nature diet tray wet foods. He likes them. I just don't know how much i should give him and how often bearing in mind his rapid weight loss and diabetes, and should i give the lite or normal version? Are they any better foods to try? The vet has mentioned a prescription diet, but wants to stabilise the diabetes and insulin first, plus i am worried as it is expensive (about £70 a large bag). Although he does need to lose weight, which will help him in the long term with his joints also, it needs to be gradual so am keen to keep his weight fairly stable. Also does anyone know if he can have the odd treat, and if so what would be best. Are treats with glucosamine ok to give him? (do they contain glucose as the name suggests?). I have asked the vet but to be honest am not getting straight answers and end up more confused than before. Am feeling a bit overwhelmed with it all at the moment, so sorry for long post! Any help or advice very gratefully received.
My lab was diagnosed with diabetes at 8yrs due to steroid use for a skin condition and had to be injected twice a day we found that when she had her food split into to amounts approx 12hrs apart she went off her legs around tea time so was fed approx 7am, small amount at 3pm and again at 7pm, we had a few hicups due to steroids affecting the insulin absorption but on the whole she managed very well and lived for another 3 years. It seemed a nightmare at first getting to regulate the insulin but after a while it became routine, she was a darling after she was fed she would come and sit waiting for her injection.
she was fed on Labrador life salmon & rice and my vet was happy that she remained on her own food, the steroids made her very hungry so she was topped up with fresh veg.
Have posted on your other thread, however it does seem like you need to go back to the vets and get some more solid advice. Diabetes can be controlled very well, however, it is a very serious condition and you'll need alot of medical input at first to get Homer stabilised.
Routine is the key at first and I recommend that you write everything down at first - when he's eating, when you walk him, how much he's drinking etc.. Therefore nothing ad hoc like treats etc. He may have been diabetic for a while which is why he has been asking for food constantly. What has your vet asked you to do treatment wise so far and when are you due to go back for another consult ? Have they done any tests yet ? What is his water consumption like at the moment ? How are his energy levels ? Have you been told of any warning signals to look out for ?
It does sound like you really need to go back to the vets as there is only so much advice that can be useful via a forum. It can be overwhelming talking to vets about something new, but bear in mind you're paying them a lot of money and if you don't understand what they're saying then they need to spend more time with you. Alot of practices have vet nurses who specialise in diabetes now, their time and support should be available to you too.
Sorry forgot to say we use to give sticks of carrot for treats. My vet said not to change her food,(she was however on a low fat food) she did loose LOTS of weight initially until she was stabilised, she also had a glucosamine supplement from vet vits (healthspan on internet) all approved by my vet.
We did have to hide if any of us had a banana as she loved them, but it was a banned fruit for her!!! The insulin that finally settled her was caninsulin, luckily I had a young keen vet who went to extreme lengths for my dog, he even contacted his tutor from vet college as at one point we thought we were going to loose her as we couldn't stabilise her.
Thank you Chrsitine and Gayle, i really appreciate your replies.
The Vet has said no to carrots (Homer loves them), as he says they are full of sugar- i didn't know that. At the moment he is on once daily caninsulin and only started on Wednesday and was in for the day for a clucose curve. He is due back in next Friday for another day and went in yesterday for a quick blood glucose reading which was a bit high (he had responded well when he had his glucose curve on Wednesday but not so good yesterday). I know it is early days and it is a question of balancing everything to get the dose right and will not be instant. He has stopped drinking so much, but isn't drinking a huge amount now, still wants to eat though. Can tolerate only very short walks and has to sit down half way. The vet told me to get a blood glucose monitor and test him, which i have, but i'm finding it almost impossible on my own to get any blood from his ear as advised. I can barely get him in the car now and i have to as he has to go to vet so often.
The main thing i'm worried about i think is the food at home. Because he wasn't in a good routine before, and i know it is important he is now, i want to get it right, but i have no idea where to start. What type of food, how often, how much etc.. Some websites say dry food, others wet, others natural,others prescription etc.. His back legs are weak and i don't knw if that is the diabetes, weight, arthritis, age??? All of the above. Do you know if diabetic dogs suffer from weak back legs? I am looking into glucosamine supplements or food with glucosamine, but am worried it contains glucose. The vet said it should be ok, but today on the internet half websites say it is ok for dogs with diabtetes and the others say no as it contains glucose. I am so confused.
He is losing weight rapidly (lost 2kg in 2 days). The temptation is to feed him more but will this then affect his blood sugars too much? ( plus he is overweight and needs to lose weight but not this rapidly). The vet says to keep him fed as i was before as doesn't want to change too much at the moment, but isn't specific about amounts or how much. I tend to get different answers each time i go. I do like my vet but sometimes wonder if he knows the answer himself! I would change, but the problem is, He has only just recovered from an expensive paw pad injury, and this is the only vet locally who would deal direct with the insurers as i don't have the money to pay the bill up front. Bill was in excess of £1500 ( I have to pay 35% of that as older dog plus excess). So i still owe the vet £200 before this, and now we are starting all over again with the diabetes. It just never seems to end and am ashamed to say i am getting myself in a right state about it all at the moment.
I have just re-read this and realised it is very long and probably comes across like i am losing the plot, but to be honest i feel like i am and don't know where else to turn for advice. Looking on the internet seems to just confuse me even more.
Thanks again for listening/reading. I can't afford to subscribe to this site just now, so may not be able to reply or post again.
I'be heard that Burns High Oats is meant to be very good for diabetic dogs - I would give them a call and ask them. Or email, I've had replies out of hours after contacting them via email.
This looks like a website with some sensible information, if you've not already found it. Caninsulin's own website says that it can take 3-6 months to stabilise a dog properly.
We fed Blaze Royal Canin Diabetic food which was expensive but he did stabilise very quickly on it (within a few weeks). I injected him twice a day at 5:30 am and again at 4:30pm with Caninsulin. I measured his glucose levels with sticks that I put in his urine stream at least three times a day and also measured his water intake. (He never had a glucose curve done.) His food was weighed on digital scales and he never had anything other than his kibble at the prescribed times. All the information I gave every two weeks on a spreadsheet to his vet and they looked it over and quite honestly that was pretty much all the help I got from my vet. With hindsight I should have gone elsewhere as it would have reduced my stress levels immensely as I think they were pretty clueless.
When he was first diagnosed I was told to measure his urine first thing in the morning and if his glucose levels were higher than a certain amount for a few days running to increase his insulin by a set amount. I did this until he stabilised, but continued to monitor him. I would add though that you do have to be very careful not to give too much insulin which is of course much more immediately dangerous than not enough. I always carried squeezy honey and/or Mars bars with me in case he crashed which did happen a couple of times unfortunately.
Blaze had HD and took Synoquin and also wore a Bioflow collar - he did have hydrotherapy before he became diabetic but we had to stop that once he was disgnosed.
As I said before though my experience goes back to 2006 and I do think treatment methods have changed quite a bit and my vet was rubbish anyway so I wouldn't necessarily do the same thing again now.
I hope you get all the help you need from your vets, good luck.
Thankfully I have never had to deal with diabeties in our dogs ( she said touching wood ) . I can see why you would feel overwhelmed by it all ( I know that I would ) .
What to do with so many things to think about, I think personally I would write everything down on a day plan thing , when dog was fed , when walked ( how far and how did you dog manage ect. ) and I would record the glucose levels or urine levels what ever your following under the vets instruction. Having done all that I would drop this in to the vet ahead of the appointment so they have time to look at the info and I would also write down your questions regarding the food and be honest and tell them that the expensive food is not on the cards at the moment so what exactly should you do as an alternative ( why is it the vets always have to push this mega expensive stuff ).
Finally I would discuss things and write down what they say at your appontment ( if your anything like me I forget things when faced with lots of info but maybe that is an age thing ) .
Hope this helps.
Really hope that things settle down and Homer starts to improve
Thanks again for listening/reading. I can't afford to subscribe to this site just now, so may not be able to reply or post again.
Thank you
Nicki and Homer x
Email me if you need to reply or ask a question and I'll post on your behalf, I tried to buy you a years subscription as I think you will benefit from support but couldn't find a way to subscribe for a 3rd party, sorry x
A couple of things you dont want with a diabetic dog. Firstly, variable sugar intake. With my Katy I fed two different foods each day. Secondly you don't want peaks in the sugar levels through the day, so I fed her four times a day. I fed food type "A" for breakfast, "B" for midday lunch, "A" for tea and "B" for supper.
In those far off days there were no special diets, we just did the best we could with what was available. I remember I used the only complete food available at that time, Vitalin as one food and the other was tins of Winalot Prime with Winalot terrier meal mixer. And this I fed for the rest of her life. Using two very different foods I always thought helped to stop her getting bored with it.
One other thing is exercise. This also affects the sugar level in the blood, so as with everything else, consistency is so important.
At that time I was collecting urine twice a day, diluting 10 to 1 and testing with Clinitest, nut I think these days there are easier alternatives. It's important that you both feed and test at the same time every day or the test results will not be comparable. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!
Listen to your vet and treat anything I say in the light that he/she is the expert and I'm the amateur.
You can inject anywhere along the back from the neck to just in front of the tail, anywhere where you can find loose flesh, and it's often better to move the site of the injection around. I used to start at the neck and over the course of a couple of weeks gradually move back towards the tail, then start back at the neck end again.
One thing is certain, the sugar level WILL go off track, and when it does you will need to make changes to the dosage. Don't change anything on the basis of just one abnormal result. It's possible that other things can cause a temporary out of limits reading, so I would never change dosage until the necessity had been confirmed by the following day's test. Then make only very small changes. Dont chase the dose up and up in dosage. Remember, the original dose was not far out so any change will only need to be a small change. The change will probably not show in the sugar level test for a few days, so if you are tempted to up the dose again be ready to drop it again the instant the test starts to show a change, or you will set the levels yoyo'ing.
One thing you will likely find is that he will in time develop sugar cataracts. Yes, they can now be operated on, but it's possible they will regrow. This was not a decision I had to make, cataract surgery not being a possibility in those days.But even if it had I dont think I would have subjected an 11 year old dog to that kind of surgery.
It's not difficult looking after a diabetic dog, but it does take a little thought. Katy was 9 when she developed Diabetes and 13 when she died. A full active life is possible.
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Newly diagnosed Diabetic Lab- V.Confused about diet-help!!
) . I can see why you would feel overwhelmed by it all ( I know that I would ) .
with so many things to think about, I think personally I would write everything down on a day plan thing , when dog was fed , when walked ( how far and how did you dog manage ect. ) and I would record the glucose levels or urine levels what ever your following under the vets instruction. Having done all that I would drop this in to the vet ahead of the appointment so they have time to look at the info and I would also write down your questions regarding the food and be honest and tell them that the expensive food is not on the cards at the moment so what exactly should you do as an alternative ( why is it the vets always have to push this mega expensive stuff 
).
) .
