Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: The difference in foods
Although it seems we like others cannot mention our products on here I am trying to help.
80% of food made in the uk is made by a company called golden acre. Simply, fish for dogs you name it, they make it. You can choose your formula and % of ingredients whether or not it works for your dog. It's basically all about price and profit. Minimum order.....one pallet.
You will notice last year potatoes were cheap so most foods were potato base and advertised that they were great for your dog. This year rice is cheap so surprise surprise most products are based around rice with as much as 60% of your bag being rice. Skinners for example and burns.
Some companies are now advertising " with added joint aid supplement". That means they have only just put it in and it was not there for the previous part of your dogs life.
It's an on going education and I handle 27 top field trial dogs for our company traveling and educating dog owners about the other side of dog food companies.
Dogs unlike humans cannot easily digest starch. They do not have the chemical in saliva to brak it down and they do not have enough intestine time to convert it to energy so it simply pours out the back end.
But starch products are cheap and bulk fillers. If you feed one of the top foods made, not expensive you will not need gimmicky supplements and additives.
If a factory cannot show you them producing food do not buy it. If the first ingredient is rice do not buy it. If they are offering a new joint aid supplement ask them why they did not add it when your dog was a pup or over it's life span.
Hopefully this message will not get deleted. I am trying to educate and not sell. I get paid either way as I am salaried. Please feel free to ask questions of analysis on your current feed.
Do you mean dogs don't produce amylase in their saliva - the enzyme that breaks down starch because it's true they don't produce it in saliva as humans do but they do produce it in their pancreas so are perfectly well equipped to digest starch it wouldn't just 'pour out' of the other end.
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:05 am Post subject: Something to read over breakfast
"Dogs do NOT normally produce the necessary enzymes in their saliva (amylase, for example) to start the break-down process of carbohydrates and starches; amylase in saliva is something omnivorous and herbivorous animals possess, but not carnivorous animals. This places the burden entirely on the pancreas, forcing it to produce large amounts of amylase to deal with the starch, cellulose, and carbohydrates in plant matter. The carnivore's pancreas does not secrete cellulase to split the cellulose into glucose molecules, nor have dogs become efficient at digesting and assimilating and utilizing plant material as a source of high quality protein. Herbivores do those sorts of things"
Thus, feeding dogs as though they were humans (omnivores) taxes the pancreas and places extra strain on it, as it must work harder for the dog to digest the starchy, carbohydrate-filled food instead of just producing the normal amounts of the enzymes needed to digest proteins and fats (which, when fed raw, begin to "self-digest" when the cells are crushed through crushing and tearing and their enzymes are released).
Our dogs do not have the kinds of friendly bacteria that break down cellulose and starch for them. As a result, most of the nutrients contained in plant matter?even pre-processed plant matter are unavailable to dogs. This is why dog food manufacturers have to add such high amounts of synthetic vitamins and minerals (the fact that cooking destroys all the vitamins and minerals and thus creates the need for supplementation aside) to their dog foods. If a dog can only digest 40-60% of its grain-based food, then it will only be receiving 40-60% (ideally!) of the vitamins and minerals it needs. To compensate for this, the manufacturer must add a higher concentration of vitamins and minerals than the dog actually needs. The result of feeding dogs a highly processed, grain-based food is a suppressed immune system and the under-production of the enzymes necessary to thoroughly digest raw meaty bones
Hi - does that mean you can answer questions on specific foods? Ignore this if not.....
I tried to find out more about Wainwrights a few months ago when we changed from Turkey & Rice to Salmon & Potato, and I was looking into different protein, calcium levels etc. I think they mentioned Golden Acre as a manufacturer? Might be dreaming that. Anyway, our 12 month boy looks fab on the Salmon & Potato for 1-7 years (we moved him off puppy food at 8 months), but my only concern is that to maintain his weight (fairly lean, can feel last two ribs easily, can see his waist) we are needing to feed him nearly 500g a day, which from everything we have read on this site is a high volume, but it is roughly in line with the guidelines on the pack. He is currently 32kg so quite a big boy for his age, and he does 3 healthy poo's a day, no more, so it all seems to be going in & out just fine.
I thought Burns produced their own food from ingredients which wherever possible were produced on their own farms and otherwise from known sources. I haven't seen any great changes in their products or publicity over the last few years either (pushing rice/potatoes etc).
I have spoken to a number of pet food sellers who "have their own food made" in the way you describe above but they have little control over the actual ingredients that go into that food and I haven't been over impressed with the ingredients list.
Is your user name an indication of your product? Perhaps you could speak to LF owners to agree an advertising deal or promotional incentives - we used to have a members' discounts page but I'm not sure if that is still here after the reason shuffle of the forums.
I do kind of think it depends on the dog - my bitch Amber is on Burns alert and produces one tiny poo a day. Shes a perfect weight with good coat and teeth - infact shes been on Burns most of her life!
My 11 month old GSP was fed on a raw diet for many months and was pooing 6 times a day, he then got a dreadful bout of colitis and after that any raw went straight through He is now on Wafcol salmon for breakfast and Burns alert for tea and he is now looking great and his stomach is good for the first time in months and months. It was a shame as I liked the idea of feeding him a natural diet but it didn't work for him.
I think its a case of finding what works for your dog and sticking with it. If thats raw then great but if its a hypoallergenic dry feed then so be it
If the OP is going to post things like that I think they should say who it is who is paying them and also post the scientific studies that support their claims rather than a biased one sided unsupported opinion. Is he or she an evoluntionary biologist or a vet? OP you are entitled to your opinion but make it clear that that is what it is don't make people feel guilty for the choices they make for their dogs raw is not the only answer and for some it is downright dangerous for a number of reasons, carbohydrates are not an evil enemy and there is scientific evidence from studies to support this. If you would like the scientific explanation why not go to 'ask a biologist' online and enquire about your theory on canine alimentary systems and nutrition the scientists there will be happy to give you a full explanation and links to the relevant scientific literature - your post has riled me too much for me to write dispassionately right now.
Funny thing is that if dogs truly can't process carbohydrate then why is it that when vets recommend a bland diet of chicken and rice or egg and rice to help a stomach upset then the usual result is virtually no poo....
I am sure their are some dogs who cannot tolerate carbohydrate of any kind just like us humans cannot tolerate certain things but I don't think that is true for all and some dogs certainly tolerate some carbohydrates better than others - mine do not get on so well with fish and potato feeds, however Burns Pork and Potato which also contains a small amount of maize is extremely well tolerated. Obviously this could be an indicator of the quality of the raw ingredients used in the first place...
I have to pick around your rules but do work for Kronch as a dog handler looking after 27 field trial dogs and also head a study into Hyper Glycemia working with the BASC.
All foods are designed to be good but some just need to generate more profit. Skinners is now 40% rice, Burns is over 63% all to increase profits and you would need to feed more to hold condition.
Orijen. Kronch, Ziwi Peak are all balanced and very good and I do not have a preference. I just want the dogs to turn out at the best and I know as with other foods the ingredients are consistent 365 days a year in the top ones. I constantly now get asked at shows and demonstrations why a dog is losing condition and it is because the commercial producers change ingredients to suit profits. Wainwrights contains no fish but salmon protein which is basically made from fish by products and is a golden acre feed .
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He is now on Wafcol salmon for breakfast and Burns alert for tea and he is now looking great and his stomach is good for the first time in months and months. It was a shame as I liked the idea of feeding him a natural diet but it didn't work for him.
