Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: Advice please, Murphy has Canine Osteochondritis Dessicans
Hi,
Murphy has just come back from the vet. To cut a long story short he has been limping after he has been resting for a while. He is 14 months old, fairly accident prone, he hurt his leg a few months ago whilst in the garden (don't know what he did) and was lame on the same leg last month. The vet x-rayed him and he says he has Canine Osteochondritis Dessicans (OCD) which seems to be the dog version of osteoarthritis in his right elbow. He checked all his joints out and he says his hips are OK (not perfect but nothing to worry about).
I'm not sure why it happened , he is a very big dog and grew very quickly which apparently can cause it. We were careful with the amount of exercise whilst growing, he came from a reputable breeder, both parents seen, KC registered and fully health checked so I suspect it is just bad luck. I just wanted to know if anyone else has a dog with this and any advice on how best to manage it - best treatments etc. I just want to help him to manage this as he is still growing so want to make sure he gets the best help. He is insured although I suspect the premiums will leap in price with this diagnosis
He is the most amazing dog and we love him to bits so wouldn't change him for the world, arthritis or not So any advice gratefully received.
Also should we let the breeder know? Not for any other reason than they might want to know, if you were a breeder would you want to know? I'm not complaining as I know it can just be luck of the draw. Thanks.
I'm so sorry that you've received this diagnosis. I think, unfortunately, your case is the perfect example of doing absolutely everything right and still joint problems can occur
If it's any help, Bran is now 3 and a half and we've known about his ED since he was about 7 months old. His insurance premiums have not greatly increased at any point, not even after his arthroscopies
There are lots and lots of supplements such as Synflex, Glycoflex or Seraquin that contain glucosamine and other things to help support his joints. Hydrotherapy is also an excellent way to keep the muscles big enough and strong enough to support the joints
____________ Sarah and Bran
Always watched over with love by our angel, Flora, from Rainbow Bridge
Bran Training
Thanks, that was the other thing I was wanting to ask how much exercise should he get, should it just be the same as any other lab? Also should we rest him until he is not limping when he gets up or walk him anyway?
Hi,yes snap here and Lottie's is in both elbows but worse in the right. She was diagnosed at 18 months after a brief period of limping at 6 months.
Same as you in terms of her history.She is the only one of 10 who has this so it's bad luck here too.
My vet is very knowledgeable on joints and decided we could manage without surgery.She has had a four week course of Cartrophen (this I think strengthens the synovial fluid in the joint and has no side effects) followed by 3 monthly top up jabs (about £20 each)
I also give her daily Glycoflex 2 glucosamine and salmon oil. We watch her weight very carefully but she is a slight working bred lab at 25kg. More weight will hurt her. I don't let her jump or run after balls mostly but she does randomly and is fine.
We go through short bouts of limping which is when her elbows are going through arthritic changes,then she is normally right as rain.
I am a dog walker and she comes with me every day and generally has a brilliant time with all my walkie dogs. I just try not to let her totally overdo it.
I panicked like mad when she was first diagnosed but came here and got a lot of reassurance about the condition. She is looked after very well by my vet and I am really happy with her treatment. Hydrotherapy is also recommended but we've not tried that yet. She swims as much as possible in the reservoir when it's warmer but we make sure she is really dry after (especially her elbows)
A lot will depend on the seriousness of the arthritis as to whether your dog can have surgery or not. Elbows are harder to operate on than hips apparently.
Please try not to worry too much as there are a lot of options out there.
In answer to your question about the breeder,I would let them know. I did and Lottie's breeder is a friend of a friend.She was absolutely gutted. It's not known whether it's hereditary or caused by fast growth,too many stairs etc etc.
We did everything right as far as I know and it is,in our case,just unfortunate.
Lottie has a fantastic life and is very fit and healthy (no limping at all for the last few months apart from a couple of weeks) We have been told that she will get worse later in life but will cross that bridge when we come to it. She is 4 in May.
Sorry if this is a long post. Please feel free to PM me if you want any information or reassurance at all.
Sometimes no matter what you do there is a genetic thing going on , just been through the worst bit of post op ed with my own dog
I would definitely inform the breeder that your dog has a problem even if they dont receive the information well ( some sadly dont, dont take it personally ) it does at least give them the information for future breeding plans and they in turn should inform the stud dog owner so they are aware of what their dog is producing otherwise everyone thinks things are fine.
There are many different views on ED as to the reasons for it from diet , exercise , slippy floors , stairs ect. I can only tell you from my own experience that 3 dogs out of my pups litter were affected all had different environment, exercise , diet and homes so for me in our instance it was a genetic issue .
Main thing is be guided by your vet and hopefully your dog will not be too badly affected and can lead a relatively normal life as many do.
Thanks, so far I'm not too worried as really there's nothing we can do to change it. I just really want as much info and advice as possible so we can do we do whatever we can from now on. The weight thing worries me as he is a huge lab (as was his dad). He is 40kg and as tall if not taller than most labs we meet. The vet said he isn't overweight but I will make sure we watch him carefully as he was neutered recently.
No stairs in the house as it's a bugalow but we have wooden floors which he has always managed fine on but I will watch out for that too.
The breeder owns both sire and dam so will let them know as it was the dam's first litter of pups with that sire. I'm not sure if there were any issues with the other pups and I don't blame them at all. As I said he is an amazing dog with such a beautiful nature and we love him to bits, I just want to make sure we manage his condition so he has as little pain as possible
" We were careful with the amount of exercise whilst growing, he came from a reputable breeder, both parents seen, KC registered and fully health checked so I suspect it is just bad luck "
When you say they were fully healthtested, were both parents elbow scored? It sounds like, if they were nature being very cruel to you, and if some weakness in the joint was lurking then you had no way of avoiding it developing into a noticeable problem however careful careful you were.
As a breeder I would want to know. And the mating ideally wouldn't be repeated, however as you say, you could well find all the other siblings are perfectly fine, which of course we all would hope for.
I have lived with OCD in a dog before on two ocassions (litter brothers) and can not stress strongly enough how, when they hit middle age and started to feel the effects rather more than during their early years, a BIOFLOW magnetic collar helped them hugely, and alongside keeping the dog as slim as possible, verging on the side of 'thin' rather than just 'slim'.
Good luck! Sorry to hear your bad news
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Di,
Yes they were hip, eye and elbow scored. Thanks for advice on the magnetic collar. Seems to be in only one elbow at least at the moment (don't know if it can spread.)
My Murphy has severe ED, he has OCD, UAP ad FCP processes evident in both elbows and alot of arthritic change. My vet said they were the worst elbows he'd ever seen and said that theoretically he shouldn't even be able to walk so Murphy is like my miracle dog as he keeps incredibly mobile!! He is nearly 5 now and was 3 when he was diagnosed.
I totally agree with Di about keeping them on the thin side of slim - Murphy is naturally very skinny despite being from show lines and the vet said that is probably what keeps him able to walk! I would try and get a couple of kilos off your boy as even though he's not overweight, it will help. Murphy did have Cartrophen but they irritated his stomach so I'm trying to manage it in other ways. I plan to get him a magnetic collar in due course and Dorwest Herbs do a range of products for arthritis. I have also noticed differences in Murphy depending on what diet he is fed too.
Sorry to hear about your Murphy and good luck with him. Yes I would let the breeder know.
OCD is what my vet thought my Black Lab Mojo had, when she could see the Arthritic changes in her elbows on the x-rays. OCD is where the cartilage breaks off to form what they call a "Mouse" and this floats around inside the joint causing inflammation. I was referred to a Specialist, as they thought it best if the Mouse was removed before it caused further damage to the joint. However, once the Specialist went for a look inside the joints with a tiny camera, it turned out Mojo didn't have "Mice" but had the FCP version of ED instead. Thankfully nothing had fragmented off yet, although her elbows were full of hairline fractures, so no reconstructive surgery was done and she was sent home on crate rest.
Personally, as you have Murphy insured, I'd see if you could get a referral, as x-rays don't show everything, in fact they show very little when it comes to soft tissue (cartilage and such). So although OCD maybe your vets best guess, he could be wrong and it could be something else.
As for managing the inevitable Osteoarthritis, I found Cartrophen jabs work well for my girl, as does a magnetic collar and good quality supplements. Mojo is naturally quite small (about 26kgs) and this helps too, although you won't get your lad down to that sort of weight, but keeping them very slim is definitely beneficial.
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I have also noticed differences in Murphy depending on what diet he is fed too.
Same here. Since all my dogs have been moved onto a BARF diet, Mojo's OA has been much less problematic. I didn't really know why until I was watching an episode of the Food Hospital the other evening and it was suggested that reducing starchy carbs in the diet, help reduce inflammatory responses such as in OA. My dogs get very little in the way of starchy carbs these days, unlike when they were on a complete dried kibble, which are generally quite high in carbs (rice, potato, wheat, etc). So it might be worth looking at changing his food to something less carb heavy, if you haven't already. Less carbs will help keep his weight low too .
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So any advice gratefully received.
and said that theoretically he shouldn't even be able to walk so Murphy is like my miracle dog as he keeps incredibly mobile!! He is nearly 5 now and was 3 when he was diagnosed.
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