Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:02 pm Post subject: Genetic disorder - can we get a refund from the breeder?
Good evening board,
I was wondering if I could get some advice. We bought a puppy (£350) in Aug from a local breeder. The puppies were KC reg'd and came with an impressive father history (generations of FTC and low hip scores etc). Recently our dog (called Blue) developed a limb which we took him to vet for. On the second check up the Vet diagnosed chondrodysplasia/elbow dysplasia which is a genetic disorder passed down by a dormant gene. This condition means our dog will most likely suffer from arthritis from an early age, shortened life span and a type of dwarfism which is already apparent at this age (6 months old). We contact the breeder and told her the news. The breeder apologised but nothing more.
Should we be asking for a refund or something similar? Since it's not straight forward like buying a dodge car which can be returned for a refund we thought we would ask you advice. Blue is part of the family now and are not going to let him go.
Thank you for any advice and sorry for the length of post.
Hi and welcome to LF, I`m sorry it ha to be under these circumstances.
With health tests although it goes a long way to help with getting a healthy pup, its no guarantee as any number of factors can be at fault, other than genetics, there day to day activity like going up and down stairs, jumping on and off furniture and exercising for too long.
You mention the Sire having a good pedigree with low hip scores, did you see the Dam`s pedigree?, was she the same and did you see the hip scores for both dam and sire along with a recent eye test certificate.
That said there is no reason you boy should have a shortened life span, yes he may well have early onset arthritis but there are loads of supplements he can be given to help with that, there are several dogs here with the same condition and their owners manage them very well, hopefully they`ll see this and let you now their experiences.
Were the parents of your puppy actually hip and elbow scored themselves, or are you just looking back over their ancestry?
I am not certain that you can really hope for a refund even if they were though, because as Mary said, parents with good scores, whilst the best protection we can currently give, do not necessarily guarantee pups with good hips/elbows.
Whilst I don't have any experience of these things with my own dogs, I do know others who have them. Some dietary supplements such as glucosamine & chondroitin may help, and can be found added to some dog foods, so you may wish to consider changing food if necessary to one of these. There are also some fairly effective painkillers available, both in tablet form and in the form of injections given every few weeks/months.
I think it is a bit extreme of your vet to suggest that all dogs with this sort of condition have shortened life-spans. I don't think it is necessarily the case, though the conditions obviously need regular monitoring.
Vet diagnosed chondrodysplasia/elbow dysplasia which is a genetic disorder passed down by a dormant gene.
Got to say this, the vet IS ASSUMING the condition is dominant, because as yet there is no DNA test for it so no one knows for certain exactly what the mode of inheritance is. I would also be VERY surprised if this is the problem because this is the kind of dwarfism which affects Dachshund and Bassets and has nothing to do with elbow dysplacia. Are you sure he didn't say Chondrosis? This would make sense and is a form of Elbow dysplacia.
My Mambo 7 yrs ago had such bad hips my vet thought she would have a shortened life expectancy. At her LAST YEARS check up he was happy to say that he could now give her a NORMAlL life expectancy. She is on regular Catrophen injection , has developed muscle where her hip sockets should be and is reletively out of pain!!
Even if your dog was perfect at birth, there is NO guarentee that SOMETHING may go wrong as it grows up.
I would not have dreamt of even thinking about a refund
John, the OP used the word Dormant rather than dominant. I think there has been some misinterpretation along the way between vet and owner!
I have to say to the OP at £350, you bought a cheap pup! You say the pup had an "impressive father history" but don't mention the mother! It takes two to make a pup and each will contribute to the make up of your pup!
The situation you find yourself in now is probably as a result of not choosing a good breeder. A good breeder would insure before a mating had happened that their dog was a healthy specimen and free from genetic disorders (to the best of their ability) and if something went wrong, would likely have done as much as possible to make good - including a refund probably.
Yes, you could ask for a refund, and you might get one. But it sounds like the breeder hasn't offered? It was a cheap price in the first place. Generally cheap isn't quality.
If you search on the forum for Achondroplasia or dwarfism in labs you should find a couple of helpful posts. Is your pup insured at all?? If not that might be another sore lesson too
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Nature is cruel. Sience is improving but not flawless.
Dwarfism, often goes hand in hand with joint problems, simply because there are many faults and anomolies with the dogs skeleton because of the Dwarfism. So even if the parents had been elbow scored your dog may well of had ED as a side effect.
dwarfism is not something freuently DNA tested for in our breed, although a test for some strains of the disease is out there but not as a day to day testing tool usually, just a test to see if a problem arises if the dog is affected.
Good luck managing his dwarfism, and I very much doubt your breeder could of done anything at all to prevent or expect the problems you have.
But sadly when buying, being KC registered does not guarantee the pups parents is healthtested, and without them being healthtested you sadly can't blame anyone for these conditions then occuring if you bought that dog. As Fee says £350 is very low, indicating the parents almost certainly had no healthtests themselves, POSSIBLY the father had one or two.
Trying to be cross with anyone now is shutting the door after.... unfortunately. As i said at the start, nature can be cruel, like with humans, even healthy parents produce the odd unexpected disability. And you can't blame breeders for producing cheap puppies without thought to their health if folks will, sadly support it by buying them
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
dwarfism is not something freuently DNA tested for in our breed, although a test for some strains of the disease is out there but not as a day to day testing tool usually, just a test to see if a problem arises if the dog is affected.
There is not a DNA test for this kind Di, only for the kind which goes hand in hand with Retinal Dysplacia.
But I still think that the vet was talking OCD, not Chondrodysplasia. OCD goes with Elbow Dysplacia, Chondrodysplasia does not. I think the OP has simply heard words at the vets, gone home and looked up what they thought they heard but having spelt it wrong the wrong thing has come up. Chondrosis and Chondrodysplasia can sound quite similar when your mind is on the dog, not what the vet is saying. Particularly after driving home with your head in a whirl.
I'm sorry to hear your little Lad has problems, but with the best will in the world, even a pup from fully health tested parents can occasionally hit the branches of the Unlucky Tree on the way down. Of course, it lessens the risk of problems if the parents are fully health tested, however there aren't DNA tests for every possible genetic disorder. So no, I don't think the breeder is obliged to return your money, as it is just one of those risks you take when buying any pup, which is why it is always advisable to insure the pup as soon as you get it.
I guess the vet gave you the Worse Case Scenario and you're now very worried about Blue. Yes he "could" have problems, but some of his problems can be managed to the point where he can and will live a very normal life.
My black Lab has Elbow Dysplasia and consequently Osteo Arthritis, which she has had since only 14 months old. You would never believe it though, as she dashes about with my youngsters and can out-run and out-swim all of them. She is 7.5years old now and she has been on Cartrophen jabs and supplements since her initial diagnosis and has lived, so far, a very active life, even doing Agility as part of a Display Team for nearly 3 years.
I also see out and about a Lab with Dwarfism. He has very short legs but that doesn't stop him thoroughly enjoying life. He bounces around with his longer legged friends every day, covering the same distances they do, just with more strides.
So try not to worry too much about your Lad yet, as chances are he'll still be a very happy boy, even if he isn't "perfect".
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