Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: Does your dog really need to have FTCH in their pedigree?
Does your dog really need to have FTCH in their pedigree?
Questions:
1 - I bought my wee pup who is now 16 wks years old (black lab). He only has a couple of FTCH in his pedigree. I am looking to see about getting him into FT's, but do you really think the FTCH in his pedigree or lack of it is the means to success or can this be replaced by the correct training the focus? What do you think?
2 - At present he retrieves dummies very well only in open ground When in rough ground he struggles. I live in Bathgate West Lothian. Can anyone recommend a good trainer to assist with Field Trials. I would also be looking for him to pick up on shoots later down the line (only if the wife does not find out). She's a veggie. Any help with training or pointing me in the right direction would be most welcome
I'll let other more qualified people answer your queries with more knowledge and experience! I just wanted to say well done for looking for a good trainer early on in your dogs career! I wouldn't have thought a lack of FTCH in his pedigree is necessarily going to cause him to be at a great disadvantage but I have 2 loony pets!
And I wouldn't worry about him struggling in rough ground at 16wks old, keeping him enthusiastic about retrieving is the aim at that young so don't do too much, keep him keen! While he is young encourage him to listen to you by keeping training sessions short and sweet. Get basic obedience like Heeling, sitting and staying started. A good trainer will get you on the right track!
Like Laura I'll wait for the qualified people to answer. I just want to say that I wish you luck keeping it from your mrs, but you know it's probably best to come clean about your plans so you don't end up in serious bother!
I used to be veggie and still don't like meat much, but I have no problem with shooting. I think it's much better than buying ready meals and things that often contain meat from god only knows where on the other side of the planet! Sorry I've gone off topic a bit there.
I should not think that a lack of FTCH will be all that much of a disadvantage if you have the right guidance from good trainers
I would PM Moj or Feebarn as they are active in the gundog side at the moment and could give you some good advice they are based in Scotland so will have the contacts to help you
There are plenty of good dogs from working lines who never trial, far more in fact than do trial, and a pup from one of these stands just as much chance and the pup from a FT Ch litter mate. But on the other hand, a pup from show lines, although possibly making a good working dog is likely to lack that little sparkle which would take it to the top in trials. But thats not to say that you wont have great fun with it!
This is no doubt a bit of a subjective question, some will feel it matters others will not.
For me; I would look for FtCh because it gives you some knowledge of how the parents and grandparents etc did in their career, it shows they reached a very good level. If you think of it in human terms; it has been shown that musical adults are more likely to have musical offspring than those who are not musical. HOWEVER that is far from a rule and some of the most talented musicians have come from non-musical families. I believe it helps to gauge the potential of a dog by knowing it's parents achievements.
That said - to throw something else into the mix- picking up dogs and working dogs on shoots, don't win awards for working on a shoot well, so a FtCh is only part of the picture. You may have a line of exceptional picking up dogs whose owners were not interested in field trials. So therefore it makes is very hard to gauge.
By having a dog who is not littered with FtCh in it's pedigree history, it does not change the way you would train it, deal with it etc. Some dogs who have more FtCh than you can shake a stick at and are gun-shy.
So the answer is not cut a dried; FtCh give you an idea of the potential of a dog but there are many exceptions to the rule and you have to take into account picking up dogs too which awards don't, even then some good pedigree dogs will fail and a mongrel can succeed (not saying your dogs a mongerl just an expample )
I would find a trainer, if you are unsure where to start and need coaching. I would say though before you find the trainer 16 weeks is too young to be doing much retrieving. I would do no more than 2 maybe 3 retrieves a day, ideally every other day and gentle ones on open ground. I would not be considering cover at all. I would be focusing on spending 10 minted a day in sessions working on sit, heel, stay and recall - if you don't have rock solid basics in every situation; including the park etc, you will struggle early on and create more work. I would take a step back and go slowly. You can never go to slowly but you can rush and spoil a dog
I`m no expert but imo when man first decided to make competitions out of trialling for their dogs NO dog was an FTCH, hope that makes sense.
A lot will depend on how willing your boy is to do what you want him too, some dogs are`nt suited to it even though they`ve been bred for it, the same kind of thing happens with show dogs, some just don`t like the ring experience at all.
As suggested though, have a word with Fee or Moj, both do a lot of field work, there are of course other members here who do too and they will hopefully see this as well.
I would say don`t expect too much too soon from ``Mack, he`s still very much a baby and over training him may put him off as he gets older.
In respect of your wife, I`m not a veggie but I wasn`t too happy about people going out and shooting things.
I now know that birds shot do get consumed and any that are injured but not killed are dispatched as humanely as possible.
I really think it` be better to tell her what your plans are for Mack, you could be working with him for quite a few years, she`s bound to find out at some point!.
I've only started dabbling in gundog training in the past couple of years so can't really advise on anything. It's a steep, steep, learning curve, but ridiculously addictive! I agree with the others about keeping your wife in the loop. You can have a pet dog and work it (mine are pets really), but you need to be careful about how much of a pet it is. If you want to work it, your wife needs to know so she doesn't set about teaching pup to drop things, letting it chase things, throwing things for it but swearing blind she hasn't etc
I think the gundog club have a list of trainers affiliated to them, so you could have a look at their website and see if any trainers are local to you. There's the Central Scotland Gundog Club who run training classes/days and the Lab Club of Scotland too. Lewis (Dummy) on here is local to you I think. I'm not sure if he gives lessons, but he'd be worth a PM to ask, or for the recommendation of a trainer.
I would work away at basics, basics, basics for now. Do little or no retrieving, you know he retrieves, you don't need to practice that too much just yet. Keep at the basics over the winter, and any retrieves you do give, keep them parallel to something like a fence to instill straight lines, and do them as memory retrieves more than marks. Then in the spring,once the shooting season is finished (most of the working/trialling people are pretty busy over the winter with their own dogs and don't give many/any lessons then), get going with a trainer.
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When in rough ground he struggles. I live in Bathgate West Lothian. Can anyone recommend a good trainer to assist with Field Trials. I would also be looking for him to pick up on shoots later down the line (only if the wife does not find out). She's a veggie. Any help with training or pointing me in the right direction would be most welcome
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