Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: Can't cope with 7 month old Lab - Help!
Hi folks,
I need a bit of help/support/advice. I have a beautiful 7 month old Labrador called Nuffin. Around the house he's not so bad, he's crate trained and reasonably obedient. He gets all his food hand fed (either obedience training or "find it" style games) and responds reasonably well on walks when its just me and him, he comes when he's called etc. I walk him twice a day for at least half an hour at a time, and he gets play sessions during the day too.
BUT
When it comes to other people/dogs he's completely out of control. Today he jumped up and mouthed a child, biting his hair. This of course was just in play, I had just let him off the lead to play with the mothers dog who he knows well. No one was hurt but it just demonstrates how bad he is around people. He jumps, he bites, he bounces.
I do all my "AH AH" noises, make him sit for food etc to calm him, but off he goes again a second later. Its the same when people come to the house. He is in no way aggressive but its sometimes perceived as such by non dog people, and I sympathise with them, who wants a big dog leaping all over them.
After todays event I almost feel its the last straw and we'll have to rehome him, I train him every day but nothing makes a difference.
Please tell me he'll grow out of this and I'm not alone. I love my dog dearly but I can't see anything I'm doing making a difference.
There are lots of different approaches to preventing a dog jumping up but most of them rely on some action or co-operation from the person being jumped on. If only to prevent them inadvertently rewarding the dog in some way.
One of the best techniques is beautifully illustrated in this youtube clip
I dont think it is linked to anything commercial so hopefully it will be ok to post it here
I am not sure I am experienced enough to give advice, but as you have said all his food is given by hand as in training and find it games, this is not something I have done so am not saying it is wrong, only as he is a youngster I wonder if he is just on a high the whole time, with having to earn all his food.
Does he spend much time resting in his crate, and how often are you training him, maybe just a five minute session twice aday would be enough, always stopping before he has had enough. Also, measure out some of his food for training and give the rest morning and evening maybe he will chill out when he has been fed.
If he is very hyper it may be something to do with the food, what are you feeding.
Its a good age for him to go to training classes, and may help to curb his excitement working with other dogs in controlled environment.
You will get loads more advice on here, hope you find something to help.
My heart goes out to you, it must be very frustrating and upsetting when he is so good in many other ways. Hope was getting difficult with the 'eating any object' habit. I found a great one to one trainer and he has worked wonders with her, using a vibrating collar. She now no longer has to wear the collar and is usually well behaved. I found that 7 month age was very difficult, Hope seemed to loose the plot for a while and I did start to wonder - what had I done. She is 11months now and it is all clicking back into place. One thing my trainer did say, was although it was nice for me to meet other dog walkers in the same location - try to vary it at different times and different locations.
Sorry I can't be of more help, there are alot of great knowledgeble owners on here who will be able to offer you better pearls of wisdom that I can.
First of all - he sounds very much like a normal pup to me, and he is still a puppy. His behaviour is completely normal and he will calm down but I would say that you need to be very firm and consistent with his training. There are people far more experienced than I with that kind of thing on here than I.
In terms of walks/exercise - be careful not to give him too much. At his age, he should be having 5 minutes for every month of his life, so at 7 months, he should be having about 25 minutes of walking at a time to avoid putting too much strain on his growing bones.
What I would do is concentrate very much on his training. Have you got an obedience training class close to you that you could go to? They're a great way to get your pup focused on you.
In terms of visitors to your home, I would get them to completely (and I mean completely) ignore him when they come in. Ask them not to look at him, acknowledge him in any way, and if he jumps to turn their backs and cross their arms. We used to get our children to do that when Mojo jumped as a pup and he soon stopped and very very rarely does it now. I always growl "OFF" at Mojo too (rather than "down" which I find confuses them if you want them to lie down). I would also teach "leave" with foods and treats so that he understands what it is you want.
My puppy Django was the same at 7 months. Really difficult in a slightly different way, but basically hard to control outside the house and once gave me a really hard time, snarling and growling at me because I had picked up my other dog and was carrying him because he had hurt himself. He frightened me and two observers who nearly called the police and pronounced themselves terrified. I also resolved never to carry my little old 'top dog' terrier because I think it changed the balance and on reflection I think Django was really snarling and growling at him not me.
I resolved then to do anything to get Django calmer and more under control. I allowed my OH to shout at him more and be firmer. I also decided to have him neutered since I wanted to do anything possible to manage any hormone related aggression and he was castrated at 9 months.
We had always been to classes and he was mostly fine in those.
Anyway, not sure how we got here but at 11 months he is quite chilled really. He loves his food and gets it in two separate goes, morning and evening and I think he likes having proper meals. He sleeps quite a lot and he is now very affectionate.
I know how you feel, but give it time. I'm sure he'll settle as Django has.
It sounds like you do love Nuffin and are trying lots of things to work with him so don't go for rehoming you CAN and WILL get through this. There are some really good behaviourists and trainers on here and I'm sure they will be along later with some tips.
In the meantime -
Is there a KC Good Citizens course running anywhere near you, part of the first bronze test is greetings and socialisation etc so Nuffin will learn to keep his emotions in check when distractions like other people, other dogs etc are around and as much as you are probably doing lots of fab training at home you can't make up for practice with real distractions and he'll still get overexcited by them until he has had the chance to practice the situation lots and lots of times. Think about how Guide Dogs are socialised by their puppy walkers so that they are calm controlled and unflappable in any situation - Nuffin needs to get to a point where he realises that even if something really really exciting is going on he still needs to listen to/ask you first and then do things the way you want. This takes time and practice and is yes frustrating at times but keep on and honestly you will achieve results in the end. I really do think it makes a difference going to a class or trainer so long as its a good trainer. My boy has come on so quickly since we started classes much more than the amount he did with just me at home practicing every day from dvd and books.
At home get yourself a babygate or crate and practice people coming over if he sits for them to pet him he gets a treat, if he will lay in his bed or at your feet he gets a treat but if he jumps up you either all fold you arms and turn your backs on him ignoring him totally or you put him in another room/in his crate/behind the baby gate for a few minutes to calm down then you try again and so on - have him wear a light lead so you can do this - once he stops trying to dive on people he can stay in the room with you. You need to show him what the right thing to do is then reinforce this again and again and again until it becomes second nature. Again class could help with this as there are send to bed exercises and stays to practice whilst others are around. It's tricky if you're like me and work from home and don't have many friends otherwise because your dog doesn't get to practice it enough, socialites won't have this issue I guess!
At the park only allow him offlead when you are sure of the situtation and are sure he'll do as you ask, if he starts to ignore you march up to him and put his lead back on. I do this with my boy - if he starts acting like he doesn't have to listen when I call him back I go and get him and he gets to walk with me for a while so he is clear that doing what you're told is imperative if you wish to be allowed freedom, I don't know if that's the right thing to do but I've spent my life working with little children so they get told and if they don't listen they get to walk with me and I treat him in the same way. It seems too dangerous to me otherwise as you don't know what situation might come up and people as you say get the wrong impression, as lab owners we sympathise really we do but I can see where non-doggy people would not be happy, I know I wasn't before I got a dog myself and realised them running over was not them coming to try and kill me!
It might also be worth looking at his food and his routine try this website www.caninemind.co.uk for some things to think about and tips.
Right well I've gone on long enough I hope some of that is helpful to you and please keep trying because I do believe you can work through this and have a great time together.
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:39 pm Post subject: He will come through!
I know how you feel, I have an 18 month Lab and at about the same age as Nuffin he was great around the house but out on walks he would not come back and would chase after everyone. But I registered him with the local dog trainer in the Bronze class which lasted for 6 weeks and it socialised him with othe dogs and he learnt basic obedience. I also had one to one for an afternoon and was told what I was doing wrong.
Straight after that afternoon I got a figure eight lead and he walked by my side straight away without pulling. When he was off of the lead I always called him and gave him a treat and he always came back. It all changed in about 2 weeks. We thought what have we to do, but he changed into a very social and obedient dog and now he has taken his Silver obedience and is a pleasure to be with.
So if I were you I would book him in to a dog training class and see how he changes. You will be surprised.
In response to a couple of things:
We feed him Royal Cannin LR Junior. I have been told switching him to a natural diet might help calm him but I don't think we have the time/space to dedicate to such a diet.
He gets lots of time in his crate in the day (often loose but he goes in anyway).
He's only allowed downstairs, we have a gate at the top of the stairs but he doesn't go up anyway (he often naughtily sits on the bottom step!).
I try to get people to be still when they meet him but it makes no difference, he bounces anyway. I make him sit, tell them to cross arms and ignore him, but.. bounce bounce bounce! I'd like people over more often but we don't live that near our friends.
We already have a dog trainer, we've done two one to ones, its been helpful, but hasn't stopped him.
I will look into if there are bronze KC classes around here. I'll just have to be tough with him and keep him on the lead more, its a shame because he adores playing with other dogs but I can't trust him.
One thing that occoured to me, do you think neutering would help? We were advised by the vet to delay this if we could, so we have, but maybe it would calm him down?
Jessie is 5.5mths so a bit younger but what we do is:
when people come to the house I put her in the kitchen - there is a stair gate joining the lounge, once the people have been in the house for 5mins or so and Jessie realises actually they are quite boring and has settled I open the gate and encourage people to ignore her. This method has worked well for us.
If Jessie jumps up people ignore her and turn away but when she is sat quietly they can fuss her.
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Can't cope with 7 month old Lab - Help!
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