Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:35 am Post subject: The sit whistle- where do i start
Not sure this is in the right place but we are due to go on the southern training day in a couple of weeks and we have been working on a few things before we get there. I am hoping that someone in here with experience training might be able to help me. Most things are going ok except the sit whistle.
I walk along with her at my heel i stop and pip the whistle and she sits, no problem there except the trigger for the sit isn't the whistle it's me stopping. If i keep walking she sort of half drops into a sit but then jumps back up to catch up with me. If i stop to put her in a sit she immediatly sits down. This doesn't make it easy to get the association with the whistle.
I've tried to use the whistle at home when i have already been sat but she tends to be sat most of the time if she is concentrating on me . If she is wandering around and ignores me and i get up to put her in a sit she sits immediatly when i get towards her.
OK... I know its boring, but its all about persistance. Really the whistle is just a vocal command (as far as *they* are concerned it comes out of our mouths anyway!!) for 'stop'. They pick up in their lives many vocal queues linking to a action, and this is no different, it just takes some longer than others to learn it. To say some dogs manage to pick it up in twenty blows, some might need 200 is no word of a lie. You tend to get out what you put in and so therefore if you take several 15 min sessions in a week and focus ONLY on that it absolutely cannot fail to improve, i promise. We tend to do this sort of groundwork at the start of a session a few times, pack it in and move onto something when we get a 'half OK one'... try and not do that and make it your absolute focus. All dogs can retrieve, few properly and genuinely stop on the whistle first blow every time and its a pleasure to see when one does.
You are absolutely right in your assumption that most dogs stop on the peep of the whistle at your side because you stop your forward motion. Then its considered they 'know it' and then, often, the owners are fustrated that they *then* don't stop when moving out *in front of them* on it.
So its good you link that you need to remain moving to genuinely test if it works as you heel along and you ask her to sit on it. So you are halfway there with her hesitating, even if its not actually stopping her. Remember, genuinely, whilst we hammer on about a 'sit whistle' its not, its just a 'stop i'm about to give you another command' whistle in practice, so therefore if they do not SIT on it its really not a disaster, although its good if they DO in the early days. later on you would never ask your dog to actually sit on it out front, its purely to stop them and swing them round so you can adjust their course (or tell them to hunt).
So start by trying to use it, as you are, in walking on. Be ready, only use it when you have eye contact or a good happy heel going on next to you, don't hammer along too fast either, move quite slowly, and blow it, and half turn your upper body as you walk on and back it up with a verbal, angry 'ssssssiiiiiiiitttt!', a hand signal MAY be needed to start with too.... a proper good flat hand sit hand command...then as she stops, walk on just a few paces.... then back to her. Just as you have been doing as you describe but back it up with a vocal...and not nicely, crossly and quietly.... get tough
So just a couple of paces forward away from the static dog, and then back up to her again, and liberally praise her. Make it a fast, swift, happy action back to her, making her know that was GOOD!
There are other more traditional ways of hammering in the stop whistle, mostly involving as the dog recalls towards you throwing it in half way, but to be honest unless used VERY sparingly these just tend to result in a sticky recall.
Another tip, which you may not be using anyway, but don't be using treats for your heelwork at this point. They will 'pulll' the dog forward to you making this a harder exercise to teach.
You can do the above onlead too... all you do, is as you blow the whistle and ask for the sit vocally SHOULD you need to (and make that vocal command FAST... associate the two.... and then try desperately to phase out having to ...) is to go the two steps to the end of the lead. its not idea because the dog tends to feel 'towed' even if he has no pressure placed on the lead, but nevertheless offlead is better and to be honest until the dog is relaibly heeling offlead the stop whistle is pretty irrelevent to you anyway as a absolute basic is missing which needs to be there before you move forward.
Good luck!
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Her heelwork is pretty good so doing this off lead is no problem and we never use treats for training because we found very early on that she is so food orientated that just knowing i have them in my bag or pocket is the biggest distraction ever.
I can usually get her to sit at a distance (10-15m) by voice if i have called her first and she is looking at me so maybe a combination of adding the whistle then and turning to face her as i walk away after the command to heel maybe the way forward.
Oh and i can do a tough voice She is a very sensitive soul and you would think i had beaten her and starved her when i tell her off when she doesn't listen. She definatly has what we call her £5 a week face like in the dogs trust adverts.
heres a vid showing a bit of mix and match with lead work. you'll see some of what Di was explaining.
Theres a couple more still showing similar but only a week apart
I think i may have posted the link before but hey ho who cares
Ummm...not quite how we teach the stop whistle must admit. We don't throw dummies around as this is trying to focus on one area of things and no other and they tend, as youngsters to be able to take ONE new thing in but not another at the same time as was shown on the clip. Ummmm.... good luck to you.
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
a mix it was but if you look at the bits you asked about, you can see them in action. It shows body action and tone of voice from praise to gruff.
Unfortunatley when training on your own quite often a different approach has to be taken from the accepted norm.
I was pushing the dog to see what I needed to work on. Given her age and the time spent I'm pleased. however if it doesn't help its no matter.
I did have a quick look at the video last night but unfortunatly my sound card has gone wrong so can't hear anything which is a bit of a problem.
We are working on a good hand signal (which we already had) a whistle and a vocal command to try and get the link formed in her head. Next i am going to move on to the backing away as i give the command to make sure she doesn't creep after me. Fingers crossed we see some progress.
I think 95% of us train on our own to be honest the vast majority of the time.... I also don't have a sound card so sorry can't hear either. Voice tone is so important do very much agree.
Good cop/bad cop HAS to be in town for them to really understand when something is right or wrong or it gets so grey and blurred to them.
I must admit I don't understand what you mean by because you train on your own you have to not do the accepted norm? can you expand on that? I must admit I train 95% of the time on my own but I'm careful to use exactly teh same methods when I get lucky enough to train with my trainer or Allan can come out or we get friends together. Do you take a different approach in the two senarios?
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
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This doesn't make it easy to get the association with the whistle.
She is a very sensitive soul and you would think i had beaten her and starved her when i tell her off when she doesn't listen. She definatly has what we call her £5 a week face like in the dogs trust adverts.
