Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:39 am Post subject: Question - breed advice
Just a thought - and it may not be a good idea so bear with me - could we put a list of names and emails or phone numbers for some of the breeders on here who would be happy to give breed advice to newbies on LF somewhere as a sticky e.g. puppy section or breeding? I ask this because we get a lot of new people asking where to look and also whether we like it or not people do log onto the net to look for a new puppy so come across sites like preloved, epupz and the like. This to me just encourages puppy farming and whilst I understand the need for LF not to end up as another form of puppy shop I do think it would be good for us to be able to refer people to someone with lots of lab knowledge who can point them in the right direction, not necessarily their own direction but to people in their area - breed advice. Now to regulate this my suggestion would be that the only ones allowed to be on this list would be members who are breeders with lots of years of experience and who adhear to the basic rules of what we'd expect for labs - maybe those with websites who already give this info for free - I think you can probably list likely candidates yourself and of course it should not be an open list at all - say you have to have been on at least 5 years and be a regular contributor as well as having many years of professional lab experience so there is no doubt and no puppy farmers of bybs can get in. It may not be a good idea but if it stops just one bitch from becoming a puppy farm statistic, for every pup that is saved from being born in that sort of environment, anything that stops the trade of pups as if they were feelingless possessions rather than living beings then to my mind its worth it.
Couple of questions. Are you trying to provide a single source of information for potential puppy buyers? Is this for first time breeders looking for help and advice? Or are you trying to stop puppy farms?
I can see that it would be a great resource for first time breeders, but doesn't make any sense other than that. You also need to think about whether the more long term experienced breeders who also post here, are happy to have the amount of requests coming through.
For puppy farm bred puppy buying from the internet, I don't think this would help. If some think they are getting a bargain, then they will buy. The topic of puppy farming is a very emotive subject, and one I think seriously about before engaging in.
While I see in theory where you are going, in practise I am not sure it would work, for a number of reasons;
LF is against puppy promotion I.e. Of litters and whilst there are 'adverts' lurking around, having a forum section devoted to 'breeders with over 5 years experience or similar' is a very good advert for them and I think would probably upset the apple cart. It also will be a place people will go to by default to have a look for breeders due to the nature of it.
Secondly it relies on those said breeders putting a lot of free time and effort in to people directly contacting them. They have gathered their info over years of hard work and it is kind for them to share it but at the moment they can choose more to dip in or out of a topic on breeding.
Finally, I dont think I fair to exclude others from this section. People like martin above would probably not fit the bill as having enough experience to comment but when I have read posts from some of the first timers etc on breeding, selling puppies etc it has been as eye opening as hearing from those who have done it for years. A lot can be said from someone thrown in the deep end, often as much of merit as those with years experience, they just cover slightly different topics with slightly different spins on things.
It is not that I personally have an issue with it, I just think the above are points which need consideration.
It can be frustrating when someone comes along asking the same things but even with the millions of stickies, it still happens, I think it is just the nature of the beast.
I think it would be a very bad idea! This way to the dark side leads!
The reality is this is an internet forum and people can represent themselves here in what ever manner they see fit. The reality is that all may not be as it seems. Also those who are "professionally involved in labradors" have a different motivations than those in a hobby breeding situation. Their motivation is not always entirely altruistic. Who is going to police or take responsibility for a candidates suitability? Who is to say that they are not puppy farming?
There is already a situation here with certain people predominating and that can be evidenced by the amount of pups that belong to just a few breeders. By somehow endorsing certain people, then LF will compound that situation. It already happens, with people reccomending litters their dogs have studded/ freinds have bred.
There are enough stickys here that steer people in a good direction. Lets just keep steering people and leave it at that.
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Agreed Celine. I've only bred one litter, and while I can talk about my experiences, there is no way I could give advice to the level expected. I also agree with Feebarn, where this is a forum, and not a place to sell puppies.
But your experience is also necessary in many situations, when you have a first timer talking to a first timer important things can come out of it that maybe a seasoned breeder would not consider as now it is second nature to them. I think there is merit in a lot of the advice on here, experienced or not, one can then cherry pick what is important to them.
I too question that ... ''It also will be a place people will go to by default to have a look for breeders due to the nature of it. ''
So how would this work for oversees breeders? This site is an international site with subscribers from many different countries.I am a subscriber and live in France and recently got a chocolate Labrador from an excellent breeder near Sarlat(Dordogne)What interest has he in subscribing to this site,being as he doesn't understand English?.But he has every right to be known,whether he is a subscriber or not.I think everybody that views this site and consults the forum is savvy enough to know what is a good breeder and what is not.I certainly wouldn't purchase a Lab' from a Breeder just because they appear on this site.Sorry,I don't agree with your proposition.
I don't think the proposition was for a breeders directory, that will never happen. It is for a support network and information service for people who are breeding or first time breeders needing help. So it would not be country relevant in that way.
Well meant but don't agree! To me breeding related issues should be dealt with professionals and mentors - not by anonymous contributors in the internet.
I don't think I explained that very well - I DID NOT mean advice on how to breed or to advertise litters online not a directory of litters or a directory of breeders either - no not at all never - what I was getting at was how to advise someone who is committed to buying a lab pup and wants to get some advice because they don't know and the info out there isn't always consistent so for first timers like me there are so many black holes to fall into even when we try our best to research it! (as you realised, thanks Celine ).
However I think you are all right there isn't a way LF could provide this other than what already happens when someone does come on like they did this am and asks about help in finding their perfect pup. I guess if there was a magic solution it would have already been done by some organisation or other. I have to say having thought about it all I think Celine and Fee are totally right the best thing is to have the stickies that are already there now and to signpost people where possible. No change needed, its just I kept reading posts asking for help and I know how I thought I'd researched it all before we got our pup then after joining LF much later realised how much I'd got wrong or not known that made me just want to help people who were also in that situation to get advice not to get pups.
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