Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject: Yellow dog mated to Chocolate bitch - good or bad idea?
I know the question of Dudleys has been raised before but try as I might I cannot find previous posts which give me the info I need, nor anything very helpful on google, so I hope one of you may be able to help. The question is -
If a chocolate bitch, whose parents were both chocolate, was mated with a yellow dog, whose parents were both black carrying yellow, would the resulting litter have the possibility of some Dudley coloured puppies? The yellow dog has black pigmentation.
My GUESS is that the puppies would be black, having read other posts on the subject, unless the chocolate bitch carries yellow which we don't think she does but are not totally sure about. Am I right?
Is there any other consideration to think about re yellow and chocolate matings? Both fully health tested, obviously. I have only personal experience of black and yellow, or yellow and yellow, or black and chocolate, matings before, but a lady has fallen in love with Ash's temperament and thinks he would suit her chocolate bitch, and I want to give her the full and correct facts before she makes a decision on which dog to use.
Have a look at this link, it may be of use. It shows the litter possibilities from parents of a particular genotype. On the diagram 'eebb' is the genotype for the Dudley labrador
From the above website, it appears that there is a 25% chance of Dudley labradors being in the litter only if your yellow dog carries the chocolate gene and the chocolate lab carries the yellow gene. If not, that website suggests no Dudley labs will be born. The genetics is fascinating! I don't know how accurate the website is but I am sure someone who has been breeding labradors for some time will be able to give you some advice from their experience. Good luck!
If the yellow carries chocolate, and the chocolate carries yellow - yes you could have some Dudleys in the litter.
If the yellow doesn't carry chocolate - and the chocolate doesn't carry yellow all the puppies will be black.
If the chocolate carries yellow, but the yellow doesn't carry chocolate, then the puppies will be black and yellow.
If the yellow carries chocolate and the chocolate doesn't carry yellow - then the pups will be black and chocolate.
ALL puppies will carry chocolate and yellow whatever colour they are - but providing they don't both carry chocolate, you won't have an issue with liver pigmented yellows.
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I've been in conversation with a respected gene testing company about this subject over the last week or so, as I kept being told if there was lots of yellow in the pedigree there would be problems.
It matters not how much yellow or chocolate is behind either parent - it;s what the parents are or carry that is key.
It is likely that eye colouring is due to some gene not yet isolated and therefore cannot be tested for - but isn't to do with the yellow in the pedigree.
Wilmington wrote:
p.s. have you thought of asking your vet?
For what purpose? what most vets know about breeding can be written on a postage stamp - so the likelihood of them knowing about coat colour inheritance will be even less.
The last time I spoke to someone from the KC, they informed me that 'yellow' was the dominant colour in Labradors (which of course it isn't )!!!
Katy - I would say the most likely outcome will be a litter of black pups - but without DNA colour coat testing, you won't know for sure - and even then, occasionally mistakes are made.
Thank you for both your replies. I have copied the link and Sue's wonderfully clear explaination to the lady concerned. Many thanks indeed, you have helped me a lot!
Thank you for both your replies. I have copied the link and Sue's wonderfully clear explaination to the lady concerned. Many thanks indeed, you have helped me a lot!
Glad it was useful, this is something I've been looking into very heavily - as I have seriously been looking at breeding Bronte (chocolate carrying yellow) away from chocolate - either yellow with black pigment (not carrying chocolate) or black carrying yellow - I have a few potential 'victims' lined up (lucky Bronte hehe)
There have actually been quite a few yellow / chocolate litters of late - most of them have produced all black pups.
Hi, I know this thread is a few weeks old but I just thought I would tell you that My Chocolate Labrador had 10 black pups and she was bred to a Yellow Labrador =)
Hi, I know this thread is a few weeks old but I just thought I would tell you that My Chocolate Labrador had 10 black pups and she was bred to a Yellow Labrador =)
Because he didn't carry chocolate and your bitch doesn't carry yellow.. = All black..
Hi, I know this thread is a few weeks old but I just thought I would tell you that My Chocolate Labrador had 10 black pups and she was bred to a Yellow Labrador =)
frilly wrote:
Because he didn't carry chocolate and your bitch doesn't carry yellow.. = All black..
As Hayley says - it's because your chocolate doesn't carry chocolate and your bitch doesn't carry yellow (at least - it's highly unlikely - statistically you could get an all black litter even though they do - but it's a relatively safe assumpion)
I've known of yellow dogs not throw chocolate in a litter until they were veterans.
If you look at my post above, you will see all the possible outcomes from a yellow to chocolate mating dependent on which colour(s) the dogs carry.
Chocolate to yellow? BAD MOVE!!! Big Bad Bethany was a chocolate dam put to a yellow dog, and she was a hooligan all her life! She is the light one of these two.
Chocolate to yellow? BAD MOVE!!! Big Bad Bethany was a chocolate dam put to a yellow dog, and she was a hooligan all her life! She is the light one of these two.
John
haha, so it's not the choccie gene that's pesky then John
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