Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:24 am Post subject: Noisy pup
Hi Ivy is comming up to 5 months now and has started to winge, whine,squeak and sing she's always been a noisey pup but now I've started gundog training classes with her it's becoming more noticeable. It starts off as a small squeak and developes into a full blown song.
I've tried the water technique as my trainer suggested but it makes no difference. She just shakes and carries on with her song
I'm training again next week but was hopein some of you experienced people would have some ideas because I won't be able to enter tests and work Ivy if she continues to sing.
I have a noisy dog in Pasco and I'm afraid from my experience the outlook isn't very good.
You can believe me when I say we tried EVERYTHING to stop it but its just not possible and I frankly refuse to his smack scruff and generally duff up my dog in order that people believe I'm doing something about it! It didn't work anyway!
You may find that you might be able to enter safari type working tests with your dog as long as there isn't a lot of hanging round?
I have tried walking him around, scruffing, biting his nose, spraying water, growling, exposing him over and over and over to an environment - it never became dull to Pasco, everything is an advernture!, I've tried avoiding situations, och you name it people suggested it, we tried it. None of it worked.
My best guess would be you have exposed her to exciting stuff just a little too early and she is a mightly driven dog. For us, it started when he had to be stuck in a crate age 15 weeks following elbow surgery. He whined because he was bored - we assumed he was whining because he was in pain
I wish I had an optomistic outlook for you.
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At four months old I wouldn't be taking her to 'gundog classes' with other dogs as you will just make the matter worse. IMO, she is too young to be sitting around in a group situation getting bored/frustrated/excited by other dogs.
Work on your basics at home and get them rock solid. Seek the advice of a professional trainer to help you with some homework, and assess the dog (and its reasons for making noise - there can be many, and without actually seeing the dog/you it is difficult to guess why it is doing it).
Squirting water in the faces of dogs (especially such a young pup ) is NOT the answer.
The breeder of my new pup told me not to tolerate any noise around the house from day one. I believe this really worked for me and might not be too late for you? You say she's always been a noisy pup? I wonder if there's a way of getting on top of any general whingeing at home first before anything else. I did it by giving my tiny puppy a big fat scary growl when she protested and lots of praise for being calm and settled and quiet. So I suppose what her breeder was getting at was starting to instill self control and the off switch from day 1.
I took my first dog to gundog training classes too soon for her. She was about 11 months I think and I just thought she *should* be at that stage by then. Every dog is different though and training with half a dozen other dogs, lots of hanging around, lots of brrr brrrs and claps, just sent her into orbit. She's always been a dog that's wired to the moon anyway. She's been a bit squeaky ever since. I ultimately stopped taking her to group training and then very gradually built back up to training in company. Fairly recently took her to one of the Scotch days and she was quiet as a church mouse in line all day. However, I know she squeaks a bit on the real thing as birdies send her adrenalin soaring and it spills over in a squeak. I just didn't know enough to introduce everything calmly and slowly from when she was little.
So, with current pup, I've taken things painfully slowly with her. Worked individually in a boring bare grass park for months, then gradually a field of rashes, then with just one or two other dogs present. I think some individual lessons might be the way to go and then slowly slowly working amongst one then two, then a group of other dogs. Well, that's my strategy anyway, but I don't know enough of what I'm doing yet to know if it'll work!
I have a bit of a theory about noise and pups and I know Laura disagrees with me, but I watch it time and time again with my pups that go to pet homes.
It needs to be stopped the very instant it starts, however tiny the pup is, together with the biting fingers , and when they are tiny it can be stopped with the AAAHHH or NOOO command. So right from the beginning the pup knows that any noise is unacceptable. (No celebrating pups first bark as I see so many times on here). Silence is golden.
Folly pup who is 12 weeks is already fully aware that any sort of noise is a complete no no. BUT I have had one of her sisters back and I noticed immediately she came through the door that she was a whingy, whiney, woofing pain in the bum!! She went back silent. She comes again next week and it will be interesting to see if they have carried on with my instructions as they too want to work her.
For me it is the one HUGE downside of pups going to pet homes where they get used to making a noise to get attention.
The moral of the story really is stop it instantly as soon as you hear the tiniest weeniest of noises.
I'm sure Mo won't mind me saying that when Boots first arrived here he was the loudest, noisiest pup I have every heard in my life, but as soon as he learn't that it would get him absolutely nowhere (within two days) he turned into a really nice QUIET boy.
The moral of the story is deal with it right at the very very start. It tends not to stop once started I'm afraid however many squirts or hidings you give them .
She's winged and wined since the day she came home. She does it when she's in the car, when she's shut in the kitchen, when she's sat up to cross a road or doing a sit stay. When she's playing with my other dog. Apparently one of the other pups from the litter is very vocal as well. She has never been given any attention for making noise. Right from the start she's always been ignored. Even in the morning I won't go down to her untill she's quiet and sitting by the gate. (I've nailed the mouthing and jumping by ignoring her and making everyone else do the same and omg can this one jump. I thought in the beginning I had a kangaroo )
The class she goes to is run by a professional gundog trainer for pups up to the age of 6 months. I decided to take her there so that I could socialise her with other dogs and nail the basics in a different environment because she's already rock steady at home and in the paddock. I don't wanna rush this one and make the same mistakes as I did with my other dog. Hence I started with the training classes so that I could have some one elses input.
Last edited by holly2007 on Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total
Agree with everyone else in that she's too young for group classes. They have the attention span of a gnat at that age, just like toddlers, so to expect a pup to sit through a group training session quietly and calmly is asking an awful lot and potentially asking for trouble.
So yes, stop the group training and as Stauntonvale suggests, go back to instilling the basics at home, and seek the help of a Trainer but as 1-to1 sessions.
Just to give you some hope. I inherited a 11 month old dog that did whine in exciting situations e.g group training and shoot days etc when he was a youngster. I completely ignored it (read: buried my head in the sand!). He very quickly grew out of it to become as quiet as a mouse and a good working test dog. Good luck, maybe? Another I took to group training sessions as a pup far too young. He was 7 months old and it blew his mind! I quickly stopped going. He too has run in working tests and never made a noise. Although, not so on Shoots sadly. That said I think he was always going to be one of those dogs that was prone to this. With hindsight I'd have approached his upbringing and training rather differently.
Interesting theory Jill and Mo. Without thinking I guess I do a halfway house. My dogs may make the odd noise at home, some are more prone to this than others (think staffies!), but I never react to them. I have to say it's more that I like my peace and quiet than anything else So they do all know that making noises to get my attention etc doesn't work and as a result we are a relatively quiet household of six dogs (unless someone comes to the door!).
She's winged and wined since the day she came home. She does it when she's in the car, when she's shut in the kitchen, when she's sat up to cross a road or doing a sit stay. When she's playing with my other dog. Apparently one of the other pups from the litter is very vocal as well.
The class she goes to is run by a professional gundog trainer for pups up to the age of 6 months. I decided to take her there so that I could socialise her with other dogs and nail the basics in a different environment because she's already rock steady at home and in the paddock. I don't wanna rush this one and make the same mistakes as I did with my other dog. Hence I started with the training classes so that I could have some one elses guidance.
Socialisation, yes really important but do you need a 'classroom' of dogs to do this? no.
And as for the basics for pups under 6 months old, this is definately something you can do at home yourself without needing any class. The best thing you can do is to take your pup for a 1-to-1 and have a chat about what you want to achieve, and what you should or should'nt be doing be doing now to get there. Your trainer will set you some exercises to do at home and give you some sound advice. This is the least stressful situation for your pup. As for the socialisation, get out there to the parks etc and let your pup meet and greet. This is what I have done with my current 6 month old.
I may be speaking out of turn, and out of ignorance, but I think group gundog training classes for under 6 month olds is not perhaps a great idea....
What I get people to do is deal with every situation on an individual basis so rather than just saying "she does it when in the car".
Deal with that so everytime you take her in the car take a stuffed kong with you and give her that to start the journey. I would do that right from the very first time I heard that first squeak. By the time they've finished the kong they are tired and fall asleep.
I make sure I do not put the pup in a situation where it can just winge endlessly.
I'll give you an example having both Morse and Skip so close in age I used to take them to training and do half with one pup and half with another (this was individual training rather than group training initially) so I had to be really organised and pack a cold bag with frozen kongs in so the one left in the car was left with a frozen kong each time. Result no noise from either of them (and Skip too when he arrived here at 11/12 weeks was a noisy little irk).
When she's shut in the kitchen - so right from the start she would be given something to occupy her when shut in the kitchen because she now has formed the habit of squeaking because she doesn't want to be left alone. I again would have set her up initially by putting her in the kitchen with a frozen kong or something similar so she would not even think about making a noise. Mind you I never shut a door on my dogs I have child gates so they can still see exactly what is going on. They hate being shut away and unable to see what's going on.
So I don't accept this "other pups in the litter are noisy" thing at all. I just put lots and lots of work into making sure that they are told and or distracted whenever they make the tiniest amount of noise.
I know that my views are different to most though and everyone has the right to there opinion.
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she's always been a noisey pup but now I've started gundog training classes with her it's becoming more noticeable. It starts off as a small squeak and developes into a full blown song.
, and when they are tiny it can be stopped with the AAAHHH or NOOO command. So right from the beginning the pup knows that any noise is unacceptable. (No celebrating pups first bark as I see so many times on here). Silence is golden.
)
So they do all know that making noises to get my attention etc doesn't work and as a result we are a relatively quiet household of six dogs (unless someone comes to the door!).
