Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: behaviour advice
I took Jenson (20 months) to trainer as previously mentioned in other posts and the trainer has sent me some guide notes to change home behaviour to establish new pack rules.
Can anyone shed some light on a couple of them as I would like to know why I need to do the changes.
Changes are..... Give Bailey his food first and make Jenson watch ? (don't think Bailey will go for this he likes to eat in a different room.
When I'm out put Jenson in his crate not to be left with Bailey
When were in the lounge and Bailey is there never let Jenson settle down ? which won't be easy and I don't see the logic myself
Try to seperate the dogs as much putting them in different rooms ?
sorry to myther but this is just a few of the changes trainer wants and I'm not sure what this will achieve.
I've asked trainer and he said we have to change pack dynamics ?
On a "Dog Borstal" episode, Lynne Davies said that you have to let the dogs decide their hierarchy, and once you've watched them and seen which one is the leader, you have to abide by that otherwise both of them will be miserable and start misbehaving.
But, I suppose your trainer knows best as he knows your dogs.....apart from the prong collar business, I didn't like that.
Keeping them separated when Bailey's in the lounge is easy, just put Jenson's mat in another room and whenever he goes to settle in the lounge guide him to his mat in the other room. It won't alienate him as long as you give him a little cuddle as you walk past him. At 20 months he'll understand what you're asking him to do quicker than when he was a real pup, so hopefully it shouldn't take too many corrections for him to eventually chill out on his mat.
I'm sure Bailey will eat anywhere if he's a labrador and it'll give Jenson some extra obedience training in "Wait" command to stay where he is while Bailey's eating. (A good absorbent towel is necessary to mop up the paddling pool of drool under Jenson's face though!)
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Mooz, Ivan & Milly xxx
I've done both obedience and agility with my dogs and, to be honest, if a trainer can't explain something to my satisfaction then I don't do it.
I tried to do some sheep training with Moss with a well known sheep dog trainer but he kept saying "I can't explain how/why this works, but just do it" so in the end I left.
I'm not saying that I know better than a trainer - I'm just saying that if I can't see the logic/reasoning behind something then I don't feel comfortable doing it.
You're paying them to train you and your dog - they should be able to clearly explain everything!
I would say that making sure they have tine apart is important, so train them away from each other and allow them time after training to have some space to themselves - put one in crate, or both in separate crates. The younger spaniel is definitely in charge out of the two in our house, they found their own way with regards to leadership and there is no way I would try to change that...as long as OH and I are the "alphas" then I'm happy.
Maybe I have missed some previous posts but is there a reason for you establishing new pack rules? Is it something you want or is it something your trainer has decided you need to do? Ours are fed together, they always swap bowls when finished to check the other's but Bodie (lab) will wait until Daisy wants to swap before he moves - they work it out themselves! I don't really understand not letting Jensen settle down - seems unfair to me and completely pointless, though maybe someone will shed light on that.
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:59 am Post subject: Re: behaviour advice
Changes are..... Give Bailey his food first and make Jenson watch ? I always give mine in the order of hierarchy (which is the dog longest with me is top - and no I don't get problems when they are left alone) so I understand this but as they are fed in different rooms it is not much good to you --- but when they have treats do you always give to one before the other?
When I'm out put Jenson in his crate not to be left with Bailey. If there are issues with behaviour then I can understand this as a temporary measure.[color]
When were in the lounge and Bailey is there never let Jenson settle down ? [color=cyan]would have thought this would prevent them sorting out the situation if they are never allowed to mix?
Try to seperate the dogs as much putting them in different rooms ? why? Surely this is just postponing a situation when they do have to be in the same room? What about in the car?
I feel sorry for you, I know we have to put work in if we want to correct unwanted behaviour, but like you I feel it is handy to understand everything you are doing so you know if you are getting good results.
It sounds like he is pulling stuff out of a hat asking you to do some of the things you are describing, if he can't justify his reasons for his suggestions then tell him you want him to explain it.
It all sounds like he is just making Jensons life a misery like a naughty boy sitting in front of classroom, or outside the door . I usually go by gut feeling when trying something new and if its not working then try something else, but I realise you have got this guy in to help you because he is supposed to be an expert so you need to have faith in him, if you are doubting his tactics could you maybe PM Lizi, just to get her slant on it.
I hope you can get some good advise from someone who understands his logic.
Honestly Sarah, if it were me I'd be looking to find another trainer. I very much disliked the fact he even mentioned the possibility of using a prong collar (even if it was just a vague mention for some time in the distant future, he still mentioned it) and well, you don't seem to have much faith in him either. Understandably.
The whole idea of making one dog watch the other eat is just bizarre to me.
personally i don't like the sound of most of that. He seems like a trainer who is into his pack theory which i find out dated and can't see the reasons for. Jensons issues are outside the house with strange dogs so to me makes little sense to do all the above in the house.
As I've said before I'd be finding a diff trainer
____________ Sam, Coal & Finn
It�s never too late to be what you might have been
All photographs remain copyrighted to me with al
I totally agree. Not just with Jenson's training but with all dog training these days, it just seems so confusing. Too many TV programmes and different methods, internet, YouTube training vids, etc. Trainers who contradict each other.
Even all of us on here say different things
Maybe it's time we all rebelled and went back to the 70's way of training "play it by ear"
-Angela- wrote:
The whole idea of making one dog watch the other eat is just bizarre to me.
Angela, I've HAD to do that with mine before now, not for "hierarchy" purposes though. Ivan used to insist on wolfing down his dinner, then trying to muscle in on Milly's dinner before she'd finished. In the end Milly got pretty sick of it herself, and ended up giving him a pasting.....he never did it again.
Last edited by Mooz on Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mooz, Ivan & Milly xxx
Where's the fun in having dogs if you spend all your time inflicting regimented training schemes on them??! Don't get me wrong - I am all for having well trained dogs who are a pleasure to own, but plenty of people manage that without the whole regimented thing. I can be quite tough on my lab (he can be a bolshy so and so) and he is most definitely put in his place when he needs it - but I do what I am comfortable with. I had a trainer who I have posted about before who suggested an electric collar and failing that, Bodes should be shot as he was un-trianable....I quickly went somewhere else - to a trainer who is happy with me using titbits to praise my food-orientated gundog, likes that I do agility and doesn't force me to conform to 'the done thing' - we do what works for me and my boy, and that is what's important. If your quality of life is going to be affected by adhering to these rules, I'd chuck 'em out the window and try somewhere else....Or, give them a try and if you're happy with them, stick at it - do what is right for YOU and YOUR DOGS xx
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. I usually go by gut feeling when trying something new and if its not working then try something else, but I realise you have got this guy in to help you because he is supposed to be an expert so you need to have faith in him, if you are doubting his tactics could you maybe PM Lizi, just to get her slant on it.
as he was un-trianable....I quickly went somewhere else - to a trainer who is happy with me using titbits to praise my food-orientated gundog, likes that I do agility and doesn't force me to conform to 'the done thing' - we do what works for me and my boy, and that is what's important. If your quality of life is going to be affected by adhering to these rules, I'd chuck 'em out the window and try somewhere else....Or, give them a try and if you're happy with them, stick at it - do what is right for YOU and YOUR DOGS xx
