Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: wainwrights????
Harry is on Wainwrights puppy food, but should he be on the puppy large breed or just the normal puppy??? Im just about to order some more but wanted to get the right one.
ALSO hes refusing his 2nd meal which is around 12-1pm, he has his 1st meal about 6 and last about 6-7pm
I don't know about the nutritional content, but I always gave Fin the large breed kibble purely because the kibble pieces are much larger and it stopped him gobbling them!
If he's refusing his second meal, just feed him the two meals but adjust the amount of food so he's still getting his full daily amount. Fin did this too - he self weaned himself down to one meal a day
at the moment hes just on the puppy kibble normal puppy size not large breed, he doesnt gobble his food down, i mean tonight hes only had about half of his meal and refused the rest but im putting that down to his training calss today so had more treats than would usualy in a day
I have a nearly 6 month old on the Wainwrights salmon and Potato and feed the 'normal kibble'. Am planning as she has nearly finished a sack to buy a couple of small 5 kg sacks in large breed uppy, then go to large breed adult from then on.
Having followed this with a previous dog (Labrador) it worked beautifully.
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Right so if i order the normal puppy kibble sack as the 2kg only lasts about a week he ok, Pets at home have an offer online for 3 for 2 on the 2kg and 2 for £60 on the 15kg untill monday midnight.
I have recently looked into this for Max who is on Wainwrights large Breed puppy complete. If you compare the content of protein, calcium and phosphorus of the large breed vs normal puppy, the protein, calcium and phosphorus are all lower in the large breed variety to try to promote slower sustained growth for the larger breed dogs so as not to cause over rapid growth which can result in joint problems. As well as absolute levels, the other factor is the ratio between calcium and phosphorus - this is better for slower growth if the figures are closer together ie nearer to 1:1, whereas in the normal pup packs there is a bigger differentiation.
I tried to find out loads of stuff recently as I was concerned about lots of opinions about levels in foods but wanted some facts to back it up. The info above came from the wainwright's nutrionist via their help line, allbeit a bit like getting blood out of a stone at the time I tried and failed to attach the document as a link (anyone help with that?), but have pasted the full content below for more background. Sorry, it skews the graphs and tables, but may help you. I can email it to you if you like as it will be easier to read. I know there is a lot of wisdom out there that points to the irrelevance of puppy food varieties, but when I read something like this it seems to me they are trying to help with the problems we are only too aware of with breeds like labs, and promote the slower growth we all want.
"Large Breed Information Sheet for Pets at Home"
Large breed puppies have the genetic potential to grow rapidly during their first six months of life so it is important to have a balanced diet to prevent potential future health problems. Moderate exercise is also important for proper development, but extreme exercise should be avoided especially in larger breed puppies since the stress on developing bones and joints may lead to injury. The main dietary components of protein, carbohydrate and fat provide the dog with a source of energy. A high intake of protein and fat (energy) can cause excess growth and weight gain which can negatively impact on the skeletal structure and joints.
Graph 1. Growth curve for a small and large breed dog
It is clear from Graph 1 above that both large and small dogs demonstrate an exponential (high) growth rate during their first several months of life. This period is shorter in the smaller breeds and they reach mature weight earlier. It would be at this point that the dog moves onto adult food. Large dogs experience a longer growth and slower maturation period than the small and toy breeds. This is why large breed puppies and juveniles are best moved onto an adult pet food at a later age compared to a small or medium breed. Large breeds continue to develop until they are approximately 18 to 24 months of age. This is subject to variation due to; breed, gender, environment, health status, exercise, nutrition and individual differences. Although it is possible to introduce a lower density adult type diet from 9 to 12 months, it is best to encourage the correct growth curve with the right nutrition.
It is important that the large breed diet encourages normal skeletal development. This will give a framework to sustain and cope with a larger bodyweight. Large breed dogs should not be fed to their genetic potential for very rapid growth rate (easily achieved with high protein consumption) because this is not compatible with good skeletal development. Therefore, a controlled food intake with a diet which limits protein intake will slow the rate of growth and support a healthy skeletal growth. Rapid growth due to excess energy intake will also cause the bone that supports the developing cartilage in joints to become less dense and weaker than normal. This causes the bone matrix to inadequately support the overlying joint cartilage. In turn this can cause damage the cartilage surface and can lead to joint defects. These changes are exacerbated by the mechanical stress of a heavier body weight on a developing skeleton. Therefore ensuring the large breed dog is not overfed is extremely important.
• A longitudinal study with Labrador Retrievers found that dogs that were limit-fed to maintain a lean body condition grew at moderate rates and showed a reduced incidence and severity of hip dysplasia when compared to dogs that had no feeding restriction.
Large Breed Information Sheet for Pets at Home
Feeding to Body Condition
As with all feeding guides it is important to ensure the individual dog is fed to its optimum requirements. Each dog will be as individual as the environment it’s in and feeding rate should be adjusted to ensure good body condition. Lean condition is the target to aid a healthy long life with reduced skeletal and joint issues.
Calcium and Phosphorus
Calcium is a principal inorganic component of the bone and as much as 99% of the body’s calcium is found within the skeleton. Phosphorus is important in a number of metabolic processes as well as being located within the bone. Together, calcium and phosphorus support the skeleton’s structural integrity.
Table 1. Table to show comparison of recommended dietary Calcium and Phosphorus levels vs
2 Wainwrights Large Breed formulations
Calcium %
DM basis Phosphorus % DM basis
Recommended
3 Months – Adult 0.8-1.8 0.7
Wainrights
Puppy Large Breed Turkey and Rice 1.1 0.8
Recommended Adult 0.5-2.5 0.4-1.6
Wainrights
Adult Large Breed Turkey and Rice 1.25 0.85
From table 1, it is evident that the formulation for the product is achieving the correct calcium and phosphorus levels that a large breed puppy requires. It is important that calcium levels are not too high or supplemented when the dog is on a complete prepared food because it is potentially detrimental. Scientific studies have shown that high calcium can have an adverse effect in large breed dogs particularly in the early growth phase (Hazewinkel, 1985; Schoenmakers et al, 2000). Excess calcium may interact with bone growth and lead to bone and joint malformations. It is equally important that calcium is not too low as this could compromise the skeletal structure.
Protein and Fat levels
When compared to the conventional Wainrights Turkey and Rice Puppy formulation, the Large Breed product has reduced protein and increased fat levels. Equally useful is a lower protein to fat (energy) ratio.
Table 2. Table to show a comparison of Protein and Fat levels
Large Breed Puppy Standard Puppy
Protein (%) 28.5 30
Fat (%) 18 15
Protein:Fat ratio 1.6:1 2:1
The protein requirement is lower for healthy large breed development and this adjustment helps drive a longer maturation phase. By simply reducing muscle growth rate which supports a slower overall growth rate and less body mass we encourage less stress on the skeletal structure.
Reducing muscle growth rate is achieved through:
1) Reduced protein %
2) Reduced Protein to Fat ratio (which is equivalent to a reduced protein to energy ratio)
Large Breed Information Sheet for Pets at Home
How does increasing the fat level help reduce growth rate?
Although there is a greater fat % in the large breed product, this actually aids a reduced growth rate (so long as owners feed to body condition*). Dogs will be reasonably satisfied with a meal once their energy requirements for the day are met. They may eat more than required if allowed (free fed), which would result in them becoming fat, but if they are restrict fed to attain the right body condition, they will remain very healthy & ‘fit but not fat’.
Because the fat content in the Large Breed formulation is higher than the standard diet, the dog will meet its energy requirements with less food then on the conventional diet resulting in approximately 80% less protein consumption.
This clever manipulation of the lower Protein:Fat ratio which is in effect a lower Protein:Energy ratio acts to restrict protein intake and thus maintain a slow growth and more healthy development rate.
*The recommended feeding levels which are located on the packaging are a guideline. Factors such as individual differences, exercise levels, breed, gender and environment should be taken into account and the diet feeding rate altered accordingly.
It is important to note that although rate of growth of a dog consuming a lower protein and lower protein:fat ratio diet will be slower than a dog fed a standard food, the ultimate mature adult size will not be affected, just delayed for a healthier life.
Joint Aid – Specific ‘Nutrients’ or building blocks
The Large Breed formulations contain 3 very useful precursors (building blocks) for the growth and maintenance of cartilage and joint structures. We include Chondriotin, Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), and Glucosamine especially in the adult and mature formulations where these have been shown aid movement and relieve the symptoms of joint ill-health.
Summary of why we feed a Large Breed formulation
Large breed dogs should be specially fed because they have very specific requirements to aid a healthy and long life. They are especially prone weight gain and skeletal disorders. To maintain a lean body weight and healthy structural frame it is extremely important to provide the correct nutrition and feeding rate throughout life and especially during their growth phase since this has been shown to:
1) help reduce bone and joint problems
2) help reduce the incidence of chronic disease
3) help increase the lifespan
How do we decide what ingredients and levels to use?
This decision process is based on the combined knowledge and experience of the technical nutrition team who have been successfully feeding dogs for over twenty five years. This knowledge has a foundation at several leading academic institutions including; Newcastle, Nottingham and Aberystwyth Universities. This knowledge has been expanded on by literature reviews, many published feeding trials, nutritional training and from unpublished customer feedback. Recommended inclusion guidelines can be found through F.E.D.I.A.F and the National Research Council (See references).
References
• www.fediaf.org
• National Research Council, 2006. Nutrient Requirements of Dogs and Cats. The National Academies Press, Washington
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I tried and failed to attach the document as a link (anyone help with that?), but have pasted the full content below for more background. Sorry, it skews the graphs and tables, but may help you. I can email it to you if you like as it will be easier to read. I know there is a lot of wisdom out there that points to the irrelevance of puppy food varieties, but when I read something like this it seems to me they are trying to help with the problems we are only too aware of with breeds like labs, and promote the slower growth we all want.
