Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: "PRICE REDUCED TO ENSURE AFFORDABILITY IN ....
....TODAYS CLIMATE" - the title of this thread is from an advert online for lab pups.
I wanted to pick up on something Di wrote on another thread about how difficult the puppy market is at the moment. Every so often over breakfast I have a quick look at the online ads, mostly at the staffy situation, and occasionally at the labs. To me nothing gives you a more accurate feel of the market out there.
On one page of a certain Freead site, you can see:
- A litter of KC reg & from health tested parents going for £275
- A litter of KC reg puppies (no health tests mentioned) going for £200
- A litter of non KC reg puppies going for £175
- A Member on here who has significantly reduced the price of their pups
- A successful Show Dog from a well known kennel used on a bitch with NO health tests
The above smacks of desperation to me. I think Di is maybe right, the current market is getting increasingly tricky for the sale of pups.
I wonder what the backlash of all of this will be in a few months/year e.g. increase in rescue dogs/lower prices of pups accross the board etc? How standards may slip or continue to slip? I also wonder if people/breeders are monitoring this also and changing their breeding plans accordingly (not necessarilly talking about people on here but anyone)?
I think the sensible breeders will change their plans accordingly especially if they themselves have had problems selling any recently produced.
As for BYB`s and PF`s, hopefully it would deter them as they won`t be making money for them, thing is they`ll still have bitches (and studs presumably) to feed, we may see more ex breeding bitches go into rescue.
I think, if you are an established breeder with a waiting list (although there is some risk in this as well) you are probably ok, you won't want to drop standards and you will have planned ahead and have a strategy - who the pups will sell to, get deposits or a list started, know you have buyers, not drop you price and cheapen your brand.
Unfortunately often those in trouble and people who breed for money I.e. One offs or with no real experience. Or who breed for fun. They have none of the above in place, no consideration and think puppies will just sell, they start dropping their prices and before you know it, people dont want them, they are too cheap and people worry.
Then there are those who don't health teat and have no real Market and pump out pups for £175 or less to unchecked homes and couldn't give a toss, well, they are in a class of their own.
You are right I think Celine about the lower prices maybe putting people off. There is nothing wrong, on the face of it, of the £275 advert - great health test results for both parents etc but a big REDUCED sign means that alone has not been enough for the owners to capture anyone's interest. It's a buyers market out there, and like you and Mary, I think that the well established kennel names with excellent rep will probably be fine; everyone else, even those doing it by the book, hmmmm I wonder.....
As for BYB`s and PF`s, hopefully it would deter them as they won`t be making money for them, thing is they`ll still have bitches (and studs presumably) to feed, we may see more ex breeding bitches go into rescue.
Did wonder about that also. If the price bottoms out of the market and stays there, then maybe just maybe....
£275 rings alarm bells to me, it costs so much to raise a litter, I worked it out a while ago a litter of 6 would break even (not including time costs etc), if you as the breeder kept one. IF you sell at £500-550 per puppy. So selling at £275 means you need a litter of almost 12 and that is only to break even.
I was taking into account as a novice - stud fee, a pup for the breeder, food, vetbed, a small amount towards heatlamps and wheling box (which would probably get used again), health checks, jabs, KC registration, vet check up, misc - inc collars etc....probably more things but not that I can think of right now.
So for a £275 puppy - what bits are they not providing? What bits have the skimped on? I doubt very much they have just put hundred into it without trying to get it back through sales.
Well Celine they started off with a higher price than that, and obviously felt the need due to lack of interest, and no doubt panic, to reduce the price significantly. I can't say from an advert whether they are 'good un's' or not but do see that at the very least they have all the KC health tests and registration, worming etc in place. They are far from the only one's. There's another very similar reduced to £300, again KC reg with all the health tests; also an Accredited KC Breeder with all the tests who has dropped the price from £600 to £475.
So for some, if the motivation has been money alone, I wonder if they are making any at all these days?
Interestingly I see labradoodle pups as low as £250 now too.
Anyway, enough looking for me, with 1302 lab adverts on one site alone I will never get anything done if I carry on
I think with current inflation about to hit 5% by the end of the year - we will see a drop in sale of pups at the higher end prices. Some breeders will plan accordingly and perhaps reduce the number of litters that they have in a year.
Yes we could see an influx of ex breeding bitches into rescue from those breeders who haven't thought through the effects of rising costs and not being able to recoup their investments.
I think the majority of LF members are like minded and would discourage friends and neighbours from having untested litters and adding to the cycle of pups without planned homes. I would also encourage anyone thinking about breeding from the their bitch to join a breed specific forum and thoroughly research the topic to learn from more experienced breeders.
When doing my research I was shocked at how much some puppies are selling for and it was a contributing factor to our decision to go down the rescue route. We can afford the monthly costs as we've had these in our budgets for the last 15 years - its the up front one off purchase cost that made be baulk. My husband loves and adores our new girl but would I have convinced him to pay premium prices in this current economic climate I don't know.
We made a charitable donation to the rescue we used of £200 which we thought was fair given the hard work they do... but there are conditions
we will need to spay her when she's older
we don't own her pedigree so are unable to show ( not an issue for us)
I think we are also restricted from trials and tests which we have never done before but gundog training is something we would consider.
You may find that more people will go down the rescue route for a family dog - which would leave breeders with working or show dogs selling to the established experienced handlers rather than the family pet owners.
It's a very odd puppy market indeed. In many ways I don't mind because it seems as potential puppy buyers are being very thorough in their research before committing to buying a puppy and many are planning ahead for up to a year. I myself is in that peculiar situation that I've got one puppy available (was reserved with deposit but the chap had to go in for pretty major surgery so he made the right choice) yet I've got 3 people wanting to put their names (and deposits ) down for a puppy for next year although I currently have made no decision about another litter, so it's all a bit odd.
My worry is of course also that local rescues are going to be swamped with 3-4 months old puppies - I see many litters locally advertised where the 'puppies are reduced in price, fully vacc (which is nice to see), ready NOW, 6 puppies left out of a litter of 8, 12 weeks old', and I'm just thinking where are they all going to go? So, having an 'extra' puppy here is not a big problem for me as I'm a full time trainer but what about others whom have office jobs?
There is no doubt that it's a very good idea to think long and hard before mating your bitch right now but it can be a difficult choice for some breeders as we often plan a year ahead anyway so a litter bred this year has taken up to a year to plan (finding stud dog and health testing too, in some cases). I've said it before but I NEVER dump the price on a puppy simply because it will start on being trained so it's actually either 'more value for money' or even gone up in value because we're starting to talk 'part trained' here.
It certainly is buyers market right now....
Natasha
____________
WLF All the Way!!!!
"Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can´t eat it or hump it. **** on it and walk away..."
" It's a very odd puppy market indeed. In many ways I don't mind because it seems as potential puppy buyers are being very thorough in their research before committing to buying a puppy and many are planning ahead for up to a year. I myself is in that peculiar situation that I've got one puppy available (was reserved with deposit but the chap had to go in for pretty major surgery so he made the right choice) yet I've got 3 people wanting to put their names (and deposits ) down for a puppy for next year although I currently have made no decision about another litter, so it's all a bit odd. "
Thats exactly my experience too. Some truely excellent litters now at maturity and needing to leave and start life are sitting unsold, yet my waiting list for next year is filling nicely and I don't even know who the sire is yet! furthermore I am getting, exactly as Natasha says, more and more 'Puppy in the Spring', 'Puppy for Feb/March' type enquiries. Very very few, ready now, or in the next month or so as always WAS the bulk of the puppy enquiries even if waiting lists filled steadily.
I think some breeders who have never experienced puppies 'sticking' in their lives are certainly rethinking mating the second bitch they usually would a few months later. I see the blacks market moving pretty well still and the bottom falling out of the chocolates and am very upfront with people thus. Which tells you that its the pet market that are not buying as Mr and Miss chocolate are very much the choice of the pet market.
Certainly in nearly 20 years i've never seen it like this. I am a tad baffled WHY it is like this. I wonder if there is ANY backlash from the Pedigree dogs programme and more and more people turning to rescue, but if that is so, the unsiold litters will soon fill rescues coffers and leave them rammed still.
We've had several people decide to wait six months rather than mate their girls at the moment. Others have a waiting list and they still feel confident despite being warned waiting lists these days are very fickle but i've been very cautious in expressing that chances are all will not shift by 8 weeks and they may need to plan longer term than normal.
Its the people who mated their bitch when it was flowing pretty nicely and then came to a screaming holt two or three months back for whatever reason I really feel for. They have not gone in knowing it would be like this. Anyone mating NOW most certainly does.
Funny enough I was dispairing a week ago.... and this time of year would past years be having 5 - 8 enquiries a day via the website and phone, last few months its been that a WEEK! But this last 5 days levels are almost up to normal... but again, for forward planning not 'ready now' puppies.
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You cannot download files in this forum
) down for a puppy for next year although I currently have made no decision about another litter, so it's all a bit odd.
