Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: Dummies......lots of questions about dummies!
Ok so, we have puppy dummies, large dummies, fur covered dummies, canvas dummies and rubber dummies.
Today my OH came out and said he would not use fur on Fern as she is quite young and not to mix dummies......
I am now confused.
What is the best thing for me to do?
We pick up on a local shoot, we shoot ourselves and I expect them to pick up vermin - magpies, squirrels, crows...as well as game, pheasant etc also rabbits and various other fur and feathered animals.
I don't have any great intention to field trial, although when we move to France, I may look at what is in the local area and if there are trialing clubs, I would consider joining one, to meet people and have fun. I do not imagine for one minute either Grouse or Fern will go high up the trialing of test ladder, as I have no idea what I am doing and will no doubt have given them a squillion bad habits in that area but just in case I would rather not do anything too detrimental.
All of that considered....should I use only one type of dummy? Mix dummies together? Mix dummies on different days (i.e. canvas one day and fur the next)? Carry on with fur and cross the trialing bridge should it ever appear? Not use fur, canvas or rubber (one or more of the above)?
The reason I started using fur was because Grouse finds dummies boring? Fern came to me having started on canvas but I have added the fur. I thought it was a positive step up to real fur and feather.....am I wrong?
" The reason I started using fur was because Grouse finds dummies boring? Fern came to me having started on canvas but I have added the fur. I thought it was a positive step up to real fur and feather.....am I wrong? "
There is no real total answer to this, but basically the conundrum in USING feather or fur on a dog that finds canvas dummies boring is, whilst you rev them up a bit (and sometimes that is only temporary and they start going 'off' those too in time, you need to look at how you are training as a whole really rather than what you are using to train with if they go flat...) you also rather like a fussy eater, are pandering to them as such and therefore you often negate any chance of being able to work on normal equipment again. thats fine for some, but not really satisfactory as you might train with friends sometime, train with a club (and they will usually use a selection of items, and at a level past a young puppy class they willl rarely throw yours JUST for you....) or with a trainer, and they won't usually just use YOUR dummy either.
So the ideal is to use a mix. But there is certainly no rush to bring in fur or feather, because once you DO, only a stupid gundog would not start developing a prefernce. Even a good experienced dog, if you lay out two or three dummies, and one is furry, you pull to that....and sometimes when sent back will have a good old hunt for another one EVEN when they see two more canvas ones laying there.
So do it as you find best for your dog, but know that heavily canvas, balls, plastic dummies, launcher dummies, disc dummies, game simulators such as ducks, pheasants etc you can throw made of heavy rubber etc etc are ideally what you would have them picking happily TOO.
Just personally I start my puppies on tennis balls. I get them on soft puppy dummies in a week or two, then I use canvas disc dummies too from time to time. When they start being capable of cleanly holding a 1LB full size dummy that will get mixed in, alongside the odd furry rabbits balls, and usually I wouldn't be wanting to bring in fur covered ones till they were slightly older and totally focused on their work rather than picking and choosing what they are picking.
Throughout the shooting season i obviously have them picking game, but then during the week they will be trained 'normally' and that will always be on dummies of some sort.
The odd dog will get so 'gamey' during the season it blinks canvas ones, but thats a fault not really something to be too understanding about for me, anyway.
So if I were you, if there is a boredom factor going on which pushes you to only use fur and feather dummies, I'd take a hard look at what you are doing and how you are doing it and for how long, and make it REALLy exciting, forget steadiness for a while and get her zinging out and back just a very few times every few days, or hunting like a demon just a couple of times.... but for something standard. Then use the other purely as a bit of a treat
As a shooting dog of course she will mostly pick feather and fur... but thats only in the season, there is a lot of work to do between seasons so its helpful if they will pick almost anything you 'throw' at them. Ahem. ;-0
Di
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The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
In the early days I only use normal full size canvas dummies. If you are going to do tests then thats what it's going to be. I never use puppy dummies because I believe they make it easier for the pup to hold incorrectly.
Later I start mixing things up, using fur on dummies, Pheasant wings on dummies and a Pheasant and a Mallard dummy. The object there is that the dog will not know what she has been sent for until she finds something. More representative of how things might go on a shoot.
Lastly cold game is used. I normally have a selection in the freezer so can start with something small such as Snipe or Partridge, progress to Pheasant, then Mallard and last Canada. (I dont get much in the way of fur, so just beg the occasional rabbit when needed.)
" I never use puppy dummies because I believe they make it easier for the pup to hold incorrectly. "
That has not been my experience John, but then some lovely soft toggle free ones are available now. Possibly when you last had a pup they were the old, like concrete ones with flaps and toggles and all sorts?
I like starting with tennis balls though because pups learn to enjoy holding as there is nothing cumbersome like a full size dummy to try and balance in a small mouth.
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Do you know John I agree with you. Neither Skip or Morse have had a puppy dummy in there mouth in any shape or form. I put them straight onto large dummies, although initially slightly lighter weight than the full blown test dummies. I did get them onto the test dummies as quickly as possible though and I have had no issues of cigar carrying or swinging about. They both carry really nicely in the middle.
I do use tennis balls as well, but normally for hunting exercises and that's probably from training with someone who trains spaniels too . Tennis balls out of thick sugar beet are our speciality .
I always kept some old soft saggy dummies around for puppies. All my puppy class at URC started on them. I never found a puppy who could resist my saggy dummies!
I also have a very old rabbit skin dummy that is Pepper's all time favourite and I take it out to training classes with me just to see the look on Pepper's face when another dog comes back with it which they ALWAYS do as he never gets to go first.
It gives us a bit of light relief when things are getting too serious .
"I never found a puppy who could resist my saggy dummies!"
Really Vicar? More tea?
Anyway i suppose the puppy dummy debate is not relevent anyway for celine as both celines dogs are grown ups. i forgot that! I just know when I take classes of 5 or 6 or more, carrying enough full size dummies for two or three retrieves each without restocking would break my back. So maybe I have developed a love of them from a need to walk standing upright most afternoons
Di
____________
The boys!
Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
Yes as Di says mine are both older now - Grouse 3.5 and fern almost 1. I have used puppy dummies, Grouse is a small girl and couldn't carry a 1lb dummy until she was 10+ months and even then she struggled for a while, she can carry most things now.
I too use tennis balls (very handy ), Grouse started on them and I use them on her to this day, as well as Fern. Grouse has never liked canvas dummies, it has always been a struggle. She will pick up toys, tennis balls, fluffy dummies, plastic water dummies, small knotted rope toys etc....but canvas - she is not a fan of. So yes I suppose I have spoilt her Maybe what I should do then is go back to canvas with Fern and only use fur as a treat (if she accepts this ). And stick to one type of dummy for each session....I think today, like Di mentioned earlier, I mixed fur with rubber and Grouse went to retrieve the rubber dummy on a perfect straight as a die 'back', got to it and went 'oh no this isn't right' so went off looking for something else! My fault entirely, hense my questions.
Quote:
As a shooting dog of course she will mostly pick feather and fur... but thats only in the season, there is a lot of work to do between seasons so its helpful if they will pick almost anything you 'throw' at them. Ahem. ;-0
Like I say though Grouse picks up rabbits, squirrels etc, if we shoot it and have time (and with some of them like crows - we go off and make sure they are dead!) we let her have the retrieve. Most of the vermin are shot out of our bedroom window we look out towards the pheasant pen so we take magpies etc from there
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Lastly cold game is used.
I'm not there with Fern yet, breaking my leg has taken a lot of time from us and juggling a 2 year old and a house conversion eats it too......Grouse is obviously fine but I want to get Fern's brain engaged first, it is coming, she is quite steady out, you would never believe she was capable of it if you met her at home, she is hyper, clumsy and chaotic, Henry gets knocked over at least twice a day!
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"I never found a puppy who could resist my saggy dummies!"
I think what I need is someone to come and watch what I am doing wrong one day. I was going to join a club (broke my leg) and now with moving at some point it seems a bit mad...also I have no idea where I would find the time. Maybe in France it is something I will invest some time in. The chap I got Grouse from is excellent but I am shy as to doing dummy retrieves in front of people, probably because I am well aware, I have done it on my own, through common sense (reading tevery dog book going and testing my training on other people's dogs as I grew up no doubt helped) and the skim reading of one book and some knowledge from my OH, I think I have done alright but I am sure I have
not taken the conventional route
I hope to get Fern out this season, as a spectator and maybe to pick up, a couple of birds, at the end of the season, we shall see how she does and play it by ear.
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I never found a puppy who could resist my saggy dummies! 
Maybe what I should do then is go back to canvas with Fern and only use fur as a treat (if she accepts this 
