The laboratories haven't just alienated themselves from the vast majority of ethical breeders by their production line hits at our breed singularly.
With our numbers Di I'm sure we are seen in some quarters as a "Cash cow."
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Yes thats what I hear time and time again, John, that because its a far greater problem numrically, it is of more relevence to many. I'm not saying the take up will be great, but I feel it will be steady and possibly the one DNA test not used as a tool but that becomes (for want of a better word) 'popular'.
If HC proves to be dominant with incomplete penitrance then of course there are no carriers, just clears and affecteds (who might, or might not have expressed the condition) So every dog who is not completely clear will HAVE to be removed from the gene pool without the option! And that could be the greater part of our breed, make no mistake, it is that serious!
Our one hope is that the form which progresses to blindness is genetically different to the more usual non progressive kind, and that we can concentrate on ridding the breed of that whilst (possibly) ignoring the non damaging kind. That may be the only way forward.
The laboratories haven't just alienated themselves from the vast majority of ethical breeders by their production line hits at our breed singularly.
With our numbers Di I'm sure we are seen in some quarters as a "Cash cow."
Quote:
Yes thats what I hear time and time again, John, that because its a far greater problem numrically, it is of more relevence to many. I'm not saying the take up will be great, but I feel it will be steady and possibly the one DNA test not used as a tool but that becomes (for want of a better word) 'popular'.
If HC proves to be dominant with incomplete penitrance then of course there are no carriers, just clears and affecteds (who might, or might not have expressed the condition) So every dog who is not completely clear will HAVE to be removed from the gene pool without the option! And that could be the greater part of our breed, make no mistake, it is that serious!
Our one hope is that the form which progresses to blindness is genetically different to the more usual non progressive kind, and that we can concentrate on ridding the breed of that whilst (possibly) ignoring the non damaging kind. That may be the only way forward.
Regards, John
ok tentatively putting my big toe in on this bit... If HC does come up with only those two outcomes clear or affected - that is a bit scary for the average lay person (ie me). Obviously the results info IS what it IS. I think when it concerns testing for me... the buffer zone in making the decision was pretty much based on what options I would be left with no matter what the result on my dog was and therefore the carrier element did come into it. As this kept your options open and decisions could be made based on this. Makes me wonder that should that be the case of only clears or affecteds with the HC dna test - what the uptake of this test will actually be ?
again - the problem with any DNA test is knowing what your going to do, responsibly, with your results so until many people have taken the plunge I suspect any new dna test has some delay in taking off anyway doesnt it?
the cash cow element - yes - something that has struck me, not just for the dna tests but - in the medical field generally (I generally challenge pretty much everything my vets say to me - on my rare visits to the vets they see me coming and literally groan - not her!!). The laboratories are the ones who will make the money - but then..... they will have invested a vast sum of money in the first case to develop the test. I suppose the cash cow element is more based on the fact the information could be shared about (like with optigen holding the patent on the PRA test for example) which would then create a cheaper test in the longterm, therefore eventually benefitting the breeder.
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I met a Lady last year with a dwarf Lab (working ped) with a proper hip and ellbow score, who was operated at the ellbows and I think the shoulders as well with 6 years.
The vet said to her it's because of the dog's short legs
the buffer zone in making the decision was pretty much based on what options I would be left with no matter what the result on my dog was and therefore the carrier element did come into it
This is true. With a normal recessive you always have options but with a dominant you dont. But I think even now, many top handlers, particularly with prospective stud dogs, are testing early and passing on anything who's results come back other than clear. The time spent training and the cost of trialing it to build it a reputation is such that you will almost never find a working stud dog anything other than clear. The money involved forces that.
So, will people test? The question probably is, will people be forced to test? If bitch owners only go to clear stud dog, which pretty well happens now, particularly in working circles, then stud dog owners must test, and must pass on fails. People may not like the idea of them getting rid of test fails but this is forced onto them by the bitch owners, and by the tests themselves.
" So, will people test? The question probably is, will people be forced to test? If bitch owners only go to clear stud dog, which pretty well happens now, particularly in working circles, then stud dog owners must test, and must pass on fails. People may not like the idea of them getting rid of test fails but this is forced onto them by the bitch owners, and by the tests themselves "
Very true John. Nice to see it said here as it really is, and not 'how it should be' creating a misconception in newcomers minds.
One of the good things, I suppose, about the DNA testing system is that being as you can do it at 5/6/7 weeks of age, it won't be such a terrible heartbreaker as working on a dog for 12 - 14 months THEN getting a 'non breedable' result back of some sort and having to write him off or sell him on.
At least you can litter test and try and not focus on one pup too much till you have your results back IF we get to this stage with the HC test and (potential) stud dog owners are forced to only keep clears, which really, for anything, they are, as you say in reality.
Its a bloody minefield though because keeping a dog based on a single test result is so negative really... unless you have umpteen seriously goodun's of equal stature in a litter so you really don't care, and how often is that?
Ok, yo have convinced me, I now DREAD the HC test as much as the others in trying to breed basically good all round dogs.
Laboratories - leave us alone!! This is becoming TOO difficult for words!!
Di
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Read: Wylanbriar Dog Blog on the website: Updated! 1st February 12´!
All this is assuming HC mode of inheritance really is dominant with incomplete penitrance. (And that assumes that dominant with incomplete penitrance really does exist. And even that is only an assumption!) Dont forget that inheritance modes were evaluated before genetics was really understood, and the genetic inheritance pattern can really only be accurately determined once a DNA test exists. (Correct me if I an wrong Clare)
Dr Jeff Sampson went on record at the Labrador club AGM a few years back, in answer to a question by me, to say that in his opinion HC would be a recessive. About a couple of weeks later I was chatting to Prof. Peter Bedford about this and his view was still Dominant with incomplete penitrance! So, at the moment "You pays yer money and takes yer choice!"
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