Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: Calling all experienced breeders - I need some help UPD Pg 3
OK feeling a bit of a pillock all round here - so just wanted to know if anyone had experienced anything similar and welcome your thoughts.
We had two VERY QUICK slip matings between Moz and Bronte 9 weeks ago this weekend - we were going to try again on the Monday - but muggins here was rushed into hospital very seriously ill as some of you know - a week of starvation, 2 stone lost, terrible health issues etc - lots of morphine, tramadol, diazepam, co-codamol etc - the mating completely slipped my mind.
About 4 weeks ago, Bronte stopped playing with Dream - they are headbangers together - two weeks ago - Bronte started looking for food like it is going out of fashion (she's not a typical lab in this way)
I didn't want to take any chances - so have been feeding her more and moving over to puppy food.
Today I took her to the vets - we have a widened chest - swollen boobies and milk - but the scan shows no babies.
Unlike her mother - she's never had a phantom - how possible is it that she could have one or two pups in there with nothing showing on the scan - her ribcage has expanded considerably - yet she hasn't actually put on any weight compared to her weight when she was hip/elbow scored.
The vet has said she will be safe to go over the weekend even if there is one or two pups hiding up there and not enough to get her kick started - and just to keep her cool and quiet.
I guess I am just looking for any others where the owner has been convinced there is no pregnancy and then been surprised by a pup or two - the last thing I want to do is place Bronte at any more risk.
This all couldn't have happened at a worse time really - Martin had surgery this week and is on crutches and drugged up to the eyeballs - but we will face with whatever is thrown at us as one has to
My main concern is for Bronte - is this (as the vet seems convinced) a full blown phantom (she's never had one before) - or could we have a puppy hiding in there not picked up on the scan? and at what point should I be screaming at the vets for more help?
Last edited by sue51 on Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
I have no idea...my only suggestion would be getting a scan at a second vet for a second opinion? (Not that you don't trust your vet but I am sure they would understand if you said you wanted to make sure one way or the other).
Sorry Sue have read the post but have no experience of slip matings apart from in Norfolk Terriers (and to be honest that's all they ever seem to get). Plus I have my bitches scanned by a "professional scanner" who is spot on and I am sure would be able to see any pups if there. I've never used a vet.
Not really experienced Sue but I would say it is unlikely she had one or two hiding at this late stage as the scanner would show heart beats and possibly some skeletal features.
Phantom is quite likely but guess best thing is just to keep an eye on her
Not really experienced Sue but I would say it is unlikely she had one or two hiding at this late stage as the scanner would show heart beats and possibly some skeletal features.
Phantom is quite likely but guess best thing is just to keep an eye on her
Thanks Alison - I guess that is what I was asking about is the scan - my vet had the surgery on standby for a C-Section before she did the scan - but stood them down afterwards.
Jill -I have known of Lab Litters from from slip matings - but had things been 'normal' we would have mated her again on the Monday - if I had been using an 'outside' dog, I would have wanted a return visit based on what we got.
Unfortunately - events literally 'overtook' us - and the vet said all the behaviour is quite 'normal' for a full blown phantom bless her - it's just coincidence it has happened the first time she's ever been near a male whilst in season
Thanks for your help everyone - I will keep an eye on her and let you know if anything happens - although I am erring towards nothing - will see if she will go back out playing with Dream - she hasn't been that keen until the last few days - and then suddenly she wants to play with her again
These girls don't half like to keep us on our toes don't they !!
" I guess I am just looking for any others where the owner has been convinced there is no pregnancy and then been surprised by a pup or two - the last thing I want to do is place Bronte at any more risk. "
In the late 90's I had a bitch have a very early accidental slip mating. Scanned her at 5 weeks showed her empty. Day 62 she popped one puppy. A singleton. She was picking up the day before She was a bit sluggish but nothing untoward.
However even with only one she gave me exactly the same labour she had had with her three normal sized litters. Several hours of first stage and very clear signs she was going into labour such as off her food for a few hours, digging and tearing stuff up.
In the late 90's I had a bitch have a very early accidental slip mating. Scanned her at 5 weeks showed her empty. Day 62 she popped one puppy. A singleton. She was picking up the day before She was a bit sluggish but nothing untoward.
Yes - Bronte is a bit more her 'normal' playful self again this week - but I think the fact we have scanned her at 63 days from the first slip mating, as Alison points out - we would surely see something at this stage?
I know my vets scanners are not the best - the vet palpated her tummy and couldn't feel anything - is it just coincidence we have had two slips and she's having a phantom - or could a baby be hiding 'higher up'?
Her milk has only started appearing today - will just keep a careful eye on her - there's nothing much else I can do really
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and at what point should I be screaming at the vets for more help?
She was a bit sluggish but nothing untoward.
